rec.martial-arts FAQ part 1 of 4 (LONG)

[Matthew Weigel]

Archive-name: martial-arts/faq/part1
Last-modified: 2 February 2004
Posting-Frequency: twice per month
URL: http://idempot.net/rmafaq/


rec.martial-arts FAQ - Part 1 of 4
==================================

The current maintainers of this FAQ are Matthew Weigel
([e-mail]), parts 1-3 and Lauren Radner
(***@us.ibm.com), part 4.

The rec.martial-arts FAQ and Newbie Guide are available on
rtfm.mit.edu in the directory
pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/rec/martial-arts, with the filenames
rec.martial-arts_FAQ_part_1_of_4, rec.martial-arts_FAQ_part_2_of_4,
rec.martial-arts_FAQ_part_3_of_4,rec.martial-arts_FAQ_part_4_of_4,
and rec.martial-arts_Newbie_Guide.

There is an HTML version of the FAQ available at
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mcweigel/rmafaq/rmafaq1.html (and rmafaq2.html,
etc.). Other people are welcome to make and distribute copies (online
and off) under the same provisions as the regular FAQ: preserve the
copyright notice and disclaimer.

A note to all who try to use URL and e-mail addresses from this FAQ:
These links are provided by the contributors. I frequently get
e-mails complaining that this or that link is no longer valid. The
quick answer is: I'm not surprised, but there is little I can do
about it. Continuously testing the links in the FAQ, and then
tracking down replacements for the "rotten" ones would be a
full-time job. Contributors - please keep your links up to date by
informing me of changes!

A note on Chinese romanizations: there are several different ways of
representing Chinese words in the english alphabet. The FAQ uses the
"pinyin" romanization (except in mailing lists and web pages which
were left as written by the person that submitted them). Below are
listed some of the common arts in pinyin and other forms for those
wanting to cross reference:

Pinyin Other

Gongfu Kung Fu
Taijiquan Tai Chi Chuan, T'ai Chi Ch'uan
Baguazhang Pa Kua Chang
Xingyiquan Hsing Yi Chuan, Hsing Yi Ch'uan
Qinna Chin Na
Shuaijiao Shuai-Chiao
Sanshou San Shou, San-Shou

Revision Notes 2-Feb-2004: Added URL header, updated address for Kyudo contributor.

==================================================================

Topics Contained in this FAQ
============================

Part 1 of 4

1) Introduction, and about the Newsgroups.
1.1 What's with all of the off-topic posts? (RMA)
1.2 How do I post? (RMAM)
1.3 How do I contact the moderators? (RMAM)
1.4 What is the procedure for approval or rejection? (RMAM)
1.5 Why was my post rejected? (RMAM)
1.6 Why aren't I receiving acknowledgement messages? (RMAM)
1.7 Why don't I see my posts right away? (RMAM)

2) What is a Martial Art?

3) What kind of Martial Arts are there? (the descriptions of
various arts are in section 16, which is in parts 2 and 3.)

4) Which Martial Art should I study?

5) How do I choose a School?

6) (a) This guy says that his style will make a Full Certified
Warrior & Killer out of me in 3 months- is it serious?

(b) What do I do to become the deadliest person in the world ?

7) Should children study Martial Arts?

8) I believe/don't believe in X. Should I train Y?

9) Rankings/Color Belt Systems

10) What is Greenoch?

11) What is Ki/Qi/Chi?

12) Martial Arts Glossary

13) Bibliography

14) Sources of information

14.1) Martial arts schools in North America
14.2) FAQ ftp site
14.3) Aikido Dojo Directory
14.4) Classical Japanese Martial Arts Electronic Magazine
14.5) Traditional Karate Mailing List
14.6) Aikido Mailing List and FTP Site
14.7) Tuite/Acupuncture Discussion Group
14.8) The Martial Arts Digest
14.9) Jujutsu and Kokikai Aikido Mailing Lists
14.10) Japanese Sword Arts Mailing List and FTP site
14.11) Chinese Shao-lin Center Mail List
14.12) Martial Arts and Sword/TV and Film Mailing List
14.13) Tai-Chi Mailing List
14.14) Neijia (Internal Chinese Martial Arts) Mailing List
14.15) Kyudo (Japanese Archery) Mailing List
14.16) Korean Martial Arts Mailing List
14.17) Eskrima/Kali/Arnis Mailing List
14.18) Miscellaneous Martial Arts WWW pages
14.19) Kung Fu Mailing List
14.20) Taekwondo Net Forum Mailing List
14.21) Kempo Mailing List
14.22) Tuite-Ki Mailing List
14.23) Policedo Mailing List

15) Sources of equipment and material.

Part 2 of 4

16) What are the different Arts, Schools, Styles?

16.1) Aikido 16.2) Baguazhang 16.3) Brazilian JiuJitsu
16.4) Bushidokan 16.5) Capoeira 16.6) Cha Yon Ryu
16.7) Cuong Nhu 16.8) Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujustu
16.9) Gatka 16.10) Hapkido 16.11) Hwa Rang Do
16.12) Iaido 16.13) Judo 16.14) Jujutsu
16.15) Kajukenbo 16.16) Kali/Escrima/Arnis
16.17) Karate 16.18) Kendo 16.19) Kenjutsu
16.20) Kenpo (Amer.) 16.21) Kempo (Kosho Ryu)
16.22) Kempo (Ryukyu) 16.23) Kobudo 16.24) Krav Maga
16.25) Kyudo

Part 3 of 4:

16.26) Lua 16.27) MMA/NHB 16.28) Moo Do
16.29) Muay Thai 16.30) Ninjutsu 16.31) Praying Mantis
16.32) ROSS 16.33) SAMBO 16.34) Sanshou
16.35) Savate 16.36) Shogerijutsu 16.37) Shuaijiao
16.38) Silat 16.39) Tae Kwon Do 16.40) Taijiquan
16.41) Western MA 16.42) Wing Chun 16.43) Wushu/Gongfu
16.44) Xingyiquan 16.45) Yoseikan Budo

Part 4 of 4 - "Groaner" FAQ

====================================================================

1) Introduction

This FAQ is not intended to be a Martial Arts Bible, but to give some
help to those that are looking for a place to start, or those more
experienced that would like to know more about some different style,
have a particular doubt, etc.

Please note that this is not the Absolute Truth(TM) but rather an
attempt to give clear and basic information about this group and the
martial arts. Your suggestions, opinions, and additions are welcome;
send e-mail to ***@cs.cmu.edu. For an idea of what plans there
are to correct and update the FAQ, there is a by-no-means-exhaustive
tentative list of round tuits at
http://www.cs.cmu.edu./~mcweigel/rmafaq/TODO

Here are the items in the original rec.ma "charter" as they appeared
in the request for discussion before the group was formed:

1) A new group proposal for the discussion of all aspects of the
martial arts, both by martial arts practitioners and the general
public interested in knowing more about the martial arts
community.

2) Increasing public awareness of the commitment of martial artists
to public service, for example the D.A.R.E. program, its use in
rehabilitation of prisoners, recovering substance abuse users,
rape prevention, and increased quality of life for the
handicapped.

3) Personal experiences, anecdotes, myths, and folklore pertaining to
the martial arts and information on the existance or location of a
specific item, style, form, system.

4) Postings of events, competitions, demonstrations, and seminars.

5) ANY/ALL bigotry, grudge challenges must be E-mailed!

Rank does not mean authority in rec.m-a, for rank without wisdom means
nothing. There may be wisdom in the words of a child, and even a 5th
dan can be a fool.

Please do not post binaries (pictures, etc.) in the group. A better
way is to post the binaries in a binaries group, and post a message in
rec.m-a calling attention to the binaries post.

One more thing. Please don't post the question "What is the best
martial art [for self-defense]?" (or similar) in rec.martial-arts.
That question has become a chronic irritant in this group, and there
is no simple answer to it; some would say it has no answer at all.
There are reasonable procedures for how one should go about choosing
an art/school here in the FAQ, and in another rec.martial-arts
periodic post, the Newbie Guide. Read them first, then consult the
group if you have more specific questions.

1.1) What's with all of the off-topic posts? (rec.martial-arts)

The Usenet is famous for topic drift, when people make small asides in
their responses, and other people make full-blown responses just to the
aside.

Further, it's as much a newsgroup "where martial artists meet to talk"
as "where people meet to talk about martial arts." If someone is
looking for a (verbal) fight, they feel confident that someone on
rec.martial-arts will oblige them.

In other words, it's a fact of life everywhere. It even happens on
newsgroups devoted to topics ostensibly more deeply involved in seeking
'spiritualy perfection' than martial arts.

1.2) How do I post? (rec.martial-arts.moderated)

Simply post to the group as you would any other. The difference is
that your post in routed by e-mail to the moderation team for approval.
You can submit posts directly by e-mail by sending them to
***@news.cirr.com.

1.3) How do I contact the moderators? (rec.martial-arts.moderated)

Send technical complaints to rmam-***@news.cirr.com.

Send policy complaints to rmam-***@news.cirr.com.

1.4) What is the procedure for approval or rejection?

Shortly after you submit your post you should receive an e-mail message
acknowledging receipt. The post is then examined by the robomoderator
and possibly a human moderator.

If your post is rejected you will receive a note explaining why. If
your post is approved you will receive a note indicating that it was
posted.

1.5) Why was my post rejected? (rec.martial-arts.moderated)

Your post will be rejected if it does not conform to the charter.
To view the charter point your web browser at:
http://www.windowswarrior.com/rmam/rmamcharter.htm

Here is a short list of reasons why your post may be rejected:

o commercial content,
o insufficient martial arts content,
o use of an anonymous remailer,
o excessively belligerent content,
o engaging in a style war,
o off-topic discussion of competition,
o discussion of fictitious matches,
o bigotry,
o trolling or flamebaiting,
o inclusion of large binary files,
o improper text format,
o insufficient new content,
o incorrect cross-posting,
o long line length,
o large signature,
o general charter violations.

1.6) Why aren't I receiving acknowledgement messages?
(rec.martial-arts.moderated)

You are probably using an invalid reply address in your posts. If you
have intentionally modified your reply address in order to block spam,
you can still post to RMAM. The only requirement is that the
moderators can determine your actual address.

1.7) Why don't I see my posts right away? (rec.martial-arts.moderated)

When you post to RMAM through your news reader/browser, your news
server automatically e-mails the post to the RMAM moderation
facilities. There may be a delay depending on how busy the moderators
are. When it is approved it gets posted through the moderation news
server, which is On-ramp. So you may then experience a delay due to
the propogation from On-ramp to your own news service. Your post may
also get to many other news servers more quickly than if you posted to
an unmoderated newsgroup on your own news server. This is a particular
distinction of moderated newsgroups. If you are impatient, you can
check www.zippo.com, which is a free web-based news service that seems
to have very little lag for RMAM.

=====================================================================

2) What is a Martial Art?

A Martial Art can be defined as a system of techniques, physical and
mental exercises developed as an effective means for self-defense and
offense, both unarmed and with the use of weapons.

The origin and history of Martial Arts is a controversial issue. We
can see signs of Martial Arts in Greek, Egyptian, African, Japanese,
Chinese, Thai, as well as other cultures. There is a clear trail
leading from the Southern China-regions up to Korea, Okinawa and
Japan. The details before that, and the exact details of that
transfer, are greatly debated by historians and Martial Artists.

Some people think that martial arts are, to quote "Stonwulfe,"

... supposed to be a physically, mentally, and spiritually
beneficial activity; a source of enlightenment and a path for
healthy living and longevity.

The real binding part of all the different martial arts described, and
not described, in this document is that they try to teach students how
to fight. Some do that better than others, some incorporate other
things such as spirituality or meditation, but there is no common
thread beyond fighting. So while it might be appropriate to claim that
your martial art, or even maybe the family of martial arts your martial
art hails from, is expected to provide something beyond fighting skill,
it probably doesn't apply to all martial arts.

=====================================================================

3) What kind of Martial Arts are there?

There are many ways in which martial arts can be divided. Here are a
few of them that might be useful to use in defining Martial Arts and
discussing them. These are not necessarily consensus definitions but
they are commonly held.

It is also useful to remember that very few of these martial arts are
just one way or another...they are all mixtures of these elements in
various degrees. When we say a style is "hard" what we mean is that
the predominant expression of that style is hard. If we say Shotokan
is linear, it does not mean Shotokan has no circular techniques.

"Sport" vs "Fighting Art" vs. "Exercise" vs. "Philosophy"

These are usually NON-useful comparisons because people tend to be
very strongly opinionated on this matter. Most people want to think
their art is an ancient "fighting art" and can be applied thus on the
street. Some styles truly are all four, and to some degree all styles
contain all four elements.

In discussions of a style it is most useful when people highlight
which area or areas their style emphasizes.

"Linear" vs. "Circular"

This distinction refers to lines of movement, attack and defense.
"Circular" styles use circular movements to block, attack, or move.
Around and aside... "Linear" styles use direct, straight-on movements,
attacks, or head-on blocks. In and out...

Styles can, and sometimes do, mix circular blocks with linear attacks.
This is a subtle distinction and not absolute, but it gives some
information.

"Soft" vs. Hard"

"Soft" styles tend to redirect energy, channeling and diverting
momentum to unbalance an opponent, or to move them into striking
range. They tend to be lower commitment and use less force. Thus,
they are less likely to be unbalanced and can recover from redirection
easier. Examples are Taiji, Aikido, Ninjutsu, or many Gongfu
styles and sub-styles.

"Hard" styles tend to direct energy outward and meet energy with
energy. They will tend to strike more, and deliver more force with
each strike. Hard stylists will often damage with their blocks,
turning them into attacks. They deliver more power, and thus are
harder to turn aside, but they are higher commitment, and thus don't
recover as well from mistakes. Examples are Karate, Tae-Kwon-Do, Muay
Thai, and some Gongfu styles and sub-styles.

"Internal" vs. "External"

"Internal" styles are styles that emphasize the more non-tangible
elements of the arts. They utilize chi/ki/qi flow, rooting, and those
elements which some people consider "mystical". They tend to
emphasize meditation, body control, perception, mind control (self,
not others!), and pressure points. `Typically' internal styles are
soft. Taiji is an internal style.

"External" styles tend to emphasize body mechanics, leverage, and
applied force. They tend to use weight, strength, positioning, and
anatomy to optimal advantage. `Typically' external styles are hard.
Tae-Kwon-Do is an external style.

"Complete Art" or not

The term "complete art" is sometimes applied to arts that include
strikes, kicks, throws, pressure points, and joint locks. The arts
most often mentioned in this regard are some Gongfu styles, Jujutsu,
and Hapkido. Although some arts contain more techniques than others,
no art is "complete" in the sense that it includes all the important
techniques from other arts. In general, every art has its strong and
weak points, and each has something to offer to the lexicon of martial
arts techniques.

=====================================================================

4) Which Martial Art should I study?

That's a question that only you can answer, maybe with a little help
of your physician (in determining whether you should practice martial
arts at all).

While some people advocate that "my style fits any individual", it is
very debatable if any single individual would adapt to *any* style.

It depends heavily on your objectives, but remember, these may change
with time. Many people who begin martial arts training strictly to
learn self-defense become quite interested in other aspects as their
training progresses.

(a) What are you looking for?

For instance, if you are looking for "on the street" self-defense
training Taiji or Kendo might not be your first choice.
Some choices: Jujutsu, Hapkido, some Gongfus, Karate, Ken(m)po,
Baguazhang, Tang Soo Do, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do,
Ninjutsu, Kali/Escrima/Arnis, Silat, or Xingyiquan.

If you are looking for meditation and philosophy Western Boxing is
probably a poor choice as well.
Some choices: most Gongfus, Aikido, Taiji, Kendo, Kenjutsu,
or Iaido.

If you are looking for a sport and competition, Shaolin Long Fist
would probably be a bad choice.
Some choices: Fencing, some Karates/Gongfus, Judo, Boxing, Kendo,
Tae Kwon Do, Savate, or Shuaijiao.

If you are looking for intense body conditioning and muscle
development, Aikido is probably not the style for you.
Some choices: some Okinawan Karates, Judo, some Gongfus, Muay Thai,
Tae Kwon Do, Capoeira.

Now these are general guides - in truth any art can be taught in a
manner which promotes any of these things - Taiji masters have
competed, some Aikido schools have rigorous workouts associated with
the class, etc. The way to find out is to look at three things, only
one of which is directly linked to the style.

- -The basics of the style (what does it teach, what is it used for)
- -The skill and the teaching style of the teacher
- -The purpose and the logistics of the school.

See Section (5) "How do I choose a school" for the answers to the last
two questions.

Also remember that more "complete" arts (ones with more techniques)
naturally require longer periods of time for a practitioner to achieve
a given level of proficiency. This is neither good nor bad; there are
good points on both sides of the debate. This is simply another facet
to account for in your decision.

(b) Advice of many experienced Martial Artists here on NetLand
coincide in the point of "go, read, look around, ask---then
decide".

As above the teacher and the school have as much to do with what you
will learn as the style. Check out the styles in your area. Go see
some classes of the different styles and see what interests you and
what you think you would stick with.

(c) Many people change from one style to another. While this is a
common practice, accepted as a means of development, it is known that
the first style is normally the one that leaves the base, the more
profound "marks". Try to choose a style that suits your needs and at
the same time offers you a kind of "challenge" to go on learning.

=====================================================================

5) How do I choose a School?

This question is integrally linked with Question 4 "Which Martial Art
should I study?".

A couple of things that are important parts to look at in the process
of choosing a school:

-The environment where you'll learn and train
-The peoplem that will be your partners
-The instructor
-The logistics of the school

(a) The environment where you will learn and train

Don't get impressed by the size of the place - just be sure that you
feel "ok" in there.

Also don't necessarily be impressed by huge number of trophies. They
may indicate a very successful competitive school (if that is an
aspect you are interested in) or they could be all show. Check
carefully.

If you are not allowed to watch any classes, you may not want to
invest your time and money. Without seeing a class you will not be
able to get a good feel for the school.

Ask questions - don't worry about looking stupid or asking the "wrong"
question. They are going to be teaching and training you- you want
to get any concerns or considerations you have out before you commit
to anything.

If you feel bullied or threatened in any manner, look somewhere else.

(b) The people that will be your partners

Go, watch some classes (without participating), then ask to
participate- see if the behavior of the students changes by the fact
that there is a new person in their class.

What follows is a quick and dirty check list, to which you can add
your own points, based on what you consider important. Remember:
these questions and suggestions are just guidelines, not hard and fast
rules. There will always be exceptions. But if you look in these
domains you will have a solid ground to choose from.

- How good are the students?

This is more of a measure of the quality of the students as students
than their skill at martial arts. See if you can picture yourself
with these people. Are they attentive, respectful, interested in
being there? Those are all good signs...

- Is there a mix of upper and lower ranks?

This is not always obvious in the styles without belt rankings, etc.
It is generally a good sign if advanced, intermediate and beginning
students are practicing together. Check the approach the higher
ranked students take to you- their help will probably be very
important in your advancement in the Art you choose.

Some schools have classes separated by rank though. Ask.

-Is there a mix in the type of people in the class?

Although this doesn't necessarily mean anything if it is not present,
it is a good sign if there is a mixture of males and females, older
and younger people in the class. It is a pointer to the efficiency
of the Art if it can teach a wide variety of people together.

- Do they move the way you would like to?

This will give you some sense of what you can achieve. Look to the
senior students and see if they move the way you want to move.

- Do they help one another?

In a small class this may not apply, but in larger classes it is a
good sign if the senior students support and assist the junior
students. This kind of personal attention will aid you greatly in your
training.

- Do the senior students seem fit and relaxed?

This will give you a sense of the atmosphere of the school. If the
senior students are uptight, nervous, unfit, out of shape, or unhappy,
it may be a sign to move on. However, do not be put off by a single
occurrence, i.e. because on THAT day the senior student was in a poor
mood. It should at least prompt you to look carefully though...

- How common are injuries?

As most martial arts involve vigorous physical activity and contact,
injuries will occasionally occur. However, if injuries are common
and/or serious, there is likely a problem in how training is
supervised, and you will probably want to look elsewhere. It will be
difficult to tell what the frequency/severity of injuries in the class
is in one or two visits. Ask the instructor.

(c) The Instructor

- -You'll need some basic trust in the individual, as a beginning.

The instructor is the person who is going to be guiding your
development as a martial artist. You need to feel comfortable with
him or her, and feel secure in receiving instruction from them. If you
have some unease or personality conflict with the instructor(s) you
might want to look elsewhere.

- Do the students get personalized attention?

This will be a good judge of how valuable your time will be. If there
is a good amount of instructor to student attention there will be more
value for you.

- Does the instructor differentiate between forms and
function?

Another good indication is to find out if the instructor(s)
differentiates between form and function. In other words do they do
it "because it looks good" or "because it works." This may not apply
if you are looking for a martial art as a performance art or as an
exercise (though then you want to look at the efficacy of their
exercises...)

- Does the instructor(s) differentiate between tournament and
self-defense?

As above, your reaction to this question's answer will depend on what
your goals are. However, there is general agreement that tournament
training and self-defense training, while highly related, are
different. If the instructor does not differentiate the two - that may
be a danger sign!

- Violence in the class

If you see an instructor hitting students, or a senior student hitting
students, be very clear that it was appropriate before you consider
that school. Though be aware - if you are unfamiliar with the art,
medium or full contact sparring may seem overly violent to you.
Violence as discipline is to be avoided.

- Are adjustments made for students of differing body types
and limitations?

Another good sign is if the instructor adjusts the training of his or
her student's physical realities: telling a slow person to work
contact, a fast person to work ranges, a heavy person to work
leverage, a light person to work speed, or, conversely, concentrating
on their weak areas to compensate.

(d) The logistics of the School

-Money

This is an important element to be clear about. You don't want to
commit to a school if you can't afford it. It is impossible to address
what a reasonable price would be here, because the benefits offered,
the local economy, the quality of instruction, and the amount of
instructor time are all variables in the equation. The best way to
determine if a school is being reasonable is to compare what they offer
for their prices.

Find out if there are extra charges for going up in rank, find out if
there are organizational dues, tournament fees, mat fees, etc.

But do not be upset when a Martial Arts instructor charges money- they
need to eat and have a place to stay. In our culture money is the way
that happens. We do not feed and house wise old men, and unfortunately
the costs of a school, equipment, and insurance are frighteningly high.

[From Kirk Lawson:]

There are several options for those short on cash who still want to
learn a martial art.

First, many school's will work with a student who truly wants to learn
but is tight on cash. Talk to the head instructor. Frequently a deal
can be struck that involves cleaning the school or some such.

Second is the option to find what I call "Garage Schools." These are
instructors that teach out of their garages and basements. They almost
always have a "day" job and teach simply for the love of the art at a
vastly reduced price; Sometimes $20 a month or less. Sometimes these
Garage Schools teach through your local Park and Rec. program at
similar cost savings.

Third, for High school and college students, check with your Student
Association or similar body. Schools and universities frequently have
Martial Arts Clubs opperating through the school. You can usually join
these clubs at no or minimal cost if you are a student. Sometimes
these clubs are open to non-students as well. Further, some
progressive universities offer a Martial Arts class for credit as part
of the physical fitness curriculum.

Naturally, there are sacrifices in each approach. To cut a deal with
an instructor, you may have to eat humble pie by admitting that you're
in a tight spot right now. It's something that many are loath to do.
Finding a Garage School has it's own challenges as well. They usually
don't advertise and so you only hear about them by word of mouth. You
have to expend some effort looking for them to find them. Sometimes
they are upper rank black belts in another school that they themselves
travel some distance to train in. The advantage of a Garage School is
that the instructor is interested in passing on the art, not making
money, and the classes tend to be rather small. Thus, you typically get
a very high level of instruction. Finding a Park and Rec. program is a
bit easier, but you still have to contact the Park and Rec. program or
admin. to find out. You can usually do this by contacting your local
Civic Center or, for people entering a new area, check the contents of
your Welcome Wagon basket. With both Garage Schools and Park and Rec.
schools, you typically have a more limited selection and may not be able
to find exactly the school you want. In the university and school
programs, as with the Garage Schools, your selection is frequently more
limited.


-Location

If you are intending to spend a lot of time at the school you want it
to be accessible, and convenient enough for you to get their after
work, on weekends, etc.

-Classes

Another thing you want to be clear on is when you can go to the school
and when classes are. Some schools are open almost all the time and
have lots of classes. In some schools you can only come when an
official class is being held. An open school is usually better for
obvious reasons- convenience, practice time, access to mats, etc.

-Commitments and Promises

This is an important thing to know about any school you will be
joining. Be very clear on what they will expect of you and what you
expect of them. Some teachers want to teach only people who are
willing to commit to them and their style, some are willing to
introduce you to their style and let you dabble, some will teach you
as long as you show up. None of these are intrinsically better or
worse, but you want to know where they are coming from so you and they
are not surprised.

Find out if you are required to attend classes, find out about being
late, find out what the policy is on school rules of behavior and
etiquette. Find out how you are supposed to interact with the teacher
and other students. There are many styles for all these things so
make sure you find out. The easiest way is to ask these questions.

There may be other questions you want to look at and specific
questions you have about an instructor, school, organization, or
style you are looking at. Know the questions you want answered and
you will find the perfect school for you!

====================================================================

6)

(a) This guy says that his style will make a Full Certified
Warrior & Killer out of me in 3 months---is it serious?

In short: NO.

First off, while many people enter the Way of the Martial Arts trying
to be the deadliest people in the world, it is not true that the final
objective of most, if any, Arts is this. Many Masters say that the
best battle someone can win is one that he doesn't fight. Most
martial arts are not designed to make you an instant killer.

Secondly, don't expect any miracle to come down on you, any light to
come through your window in the night and make you the most skilled
fighter- it all depends on your dedication, on your objectives, and on
the amount of training you get. Any school that promises to teach you
to be an "expert" in less than two years (at the lowest minimum) is
probably a scam. General net consensus seems to be that results can
be seen within a few months but the elusive "MASTERY" is the product
of YEARS and YEARS of dedicated work. Don't be fooled by false
promises.

(b) What do I do to become the deadliest person in the world ?

In brief: You can't. While a Martial Artist does learn combat skills,
the final objective of a Martial Art is not to become the deadliest
person alive.

The Martial Arts recognize there will always be someone who is bigger,
stronger, faster, has a bigger knife, a more powerful gun, a longer
range missile, and so on. The objective, then, is to become the best
that you can be, regardless of how good anyone else is.

=====================================================================

7) Should children study Martial Arts?

In general, yes. Some of the possible positives would be control of
agressiveness, instilling self-respect and self-control, as well as
self-defense.

The style that a child should take is a totally different question,
and is directly influenced by the style, if any, of the parents. It
will of course be convenient if the child can practice with, or at
least in the same school as, the parents. The major issue with
children in the martial arts is the integrity and trustworthiness of
the teacher and the school.

The joints and connective tissues of children are more vulnerable to
injury than those of adults. Keep this in mind when selecting a style
and school for a child, and discuss it with the instructor. Schools
which allow agressive joint locks to be applied to children or don't
train them to refrain from snapping/hyper-extending elbows on strikes
and knees on kicks should be avoided. (It is for this same reason
that good baseball coaches will not allow young pitchers to throw
pitches which require hard snapping of the arm - like curve balls).
Throws, however, are quite different; the small size of children makes
them naturals for arts which require falling down.

=====================================================================

8) I believe/don't believe in X. Should I train in Y?

Some martial arts have philosophical and/or religious roots or
associations, e.g. with Buddhism, Taoism, or Omotokyo. Thus, it is
natural for people who are considering a particular art to wonder if
it is compatible with their own philosophy or religion.

Normally it is not considered ethical for a Sensei/Sifu/Master/Teacher
to try to *impose* his own views on his students. However, the
philosophical aspects of some arts may still be present in the
required training to the extent that some potential students would be
offended by it. As with so many other aspects of martial arts, it
depends on the art and even more heavily on the instructor. So, be
sure to watch for this aspect when you visit a school that you are
interested in. Have a conversation with the instructor about it, and
watch how he/she interacts with his/her students.

=====================================================================

9) Rankings/Color Belt Systems

Many arts have a ranking system. A typical ranking from beginner to
most experienced master is: 10th kyu, 9th kyu, ..., 2nd kyu, 1st kyu,
1st dan, 2nd dan, ..., 10th dan. "kyu" and "dan" are Japanese words;
Korean systems use the word "gup" instead of "kyu". 1st dan and above
frequently wear black belts.

That being said, do not put too much stock in rankings, and put even
less in belt color. Belt colors are HIGHLY dependent on the art,
school, and instructor. Some arts don't have any belts. Some have
only white and black. Some have white, brown, and black. Some have a
rainbow. Some instructors hand out rank/belts like candy, others are
very stingy. A given color will frequently signify different ranks in
different arts.

Rather than rank or belt color, what will determine an individual's
skill are how long and how intensely they have studied, the quality of
instruction they have received, and (to a lesser extent) their
"natural" ability.

A brief history of kyu/dan ranking systems and belts, contributed by
Steve Gombosi (***@rainbow.rmii.com), is given below:

Before Jigoro Kano invented Judo, there was no kyu/dan ranking system.
Kano invented it when he awarded "shodan" to two of his senior
students (Saito and Tomita) in 1883. Even then, there was no external
differentiation between yudansha (dan ranks) and mudansha (those who
hadn't yet attained dan ranking). Kano apparently began the custom of
having his yudansha wear black obis in 1886. These obis weren't the
belts karateka and judoka wear today - Kano hadn't invented the judogi
(uniform) yet, and his students were still practicing in kimono. They
were the wide obi still worn with formal kimono. In 1907, Kano
introduced the modern gi and its modern obi, but he still only used
white and black.

Karateka in Okinawa didn't use any sort of special uniform at all in
the old days. The kyu/dan ranking system, and the modern karategi
(modified judogi) were first adopted by Funakoshi in an effort to
encourage karate's acceptance by the Japanese. He awarded the first
"shodan" ranks given in karate to Tokuda, Otsuka, Akiba, Shimizu,
Hirose, Gima, and Kasuya on April 10, 1924. The adoption of the
kyu/dan system and the adoption of a standard uniform based on the
judogi were 2 of the 4 conditions which the Dai-Nippon Butokukai
required before recognizing karate as a "real" martial art. If you
look at ph otographs of Okinawan karateka training in the early part of
this century, you'll see that they were training in their everyday
clothes, or (!) in their underwear.

Most other arts that have ranking/belt color systems adopted them from
the Japanese.

====================================================================

10) What is Greenoch?

The truth is: Greenoch doesn't exist. It first appeared in a post by
someone satirizing the "my School is better than your School", "my
Sensei/Sifu/Master is better than yours" syndrome that sometimes comes
up in this group.

=====================================================================

11) What is Ki/Qi/Chi?

There are no absolute right answers to this question. Instead of
giving the one true answer to this, below are several different
opinions.

(a) Ki doesn't exist. Everything the ki model tries to explain can be
explained with body mechanics, biophysics, and psychology. There
is no need to postulate some mysterious force. Science can
explain it.

(b) Ki exists absolutely. Ki is an energy, a living force, a spirit
that can be used to increase your strength, throw people around,
etc. Subjective experience shows that ki is real. It may either
be a bio-kinetic phenomena science doesn't understand yet or the
power of the mind in union with the body.

(c) Ki may or may not "really" exist. It is a useful model. The
ki model allows you to visualize how to increase your strength,
throw people around, etc.--it doesn't matter if it exists or not.
If someone invents a better model (i.e. one that is easier to
visualize), then maybe we'll switch to it.

Of the styles that stress ki, some work on developing the flow of ki
within their bodies. An example of this approach is Taijiquan.
Other styles work on letting the ki of the universe flow through them.

====================================================================

12) Martial Arts Glossary

English:

sparring -- training with another person using actual blows

Japanese:
atemi -- a punch
do -- way
dojo -- training hall
gi -- uniform worn when training
kata -- prearranged series of movements
ki -- energy, living power, spirit
kumite -- sparring
jutsu -- art
randori -- multiple-person attacks
sensei -- teacher

Ichi (ee-chee) -- one
Ni (nee) -- two
San (sahn) -- three
Shi (shee) -- four
Go (go) -- five
Roku (row-koo) -- six
Shichi (shee-chee) -- seven
Hachi (hah-chee) -- eight
Kyu (cue) -- nine
Ju (joo) -- ten

Korean:
dobak -- uniform worn when training
dojang -- training hall
poomse -- prearranged series of movements
qi -- energy, living power, spirit (same as chi)
sohgi -- stance
chagi -- kick
chirugi -- punch
makki -- block
kyuroogi -- free sparring
gup -- grade
kihap -- yell
sah-bum-nim -- master

Hah Nah -- one
Dool -- two
Set -- three (don't aspirate
Net -- four the "t"s)
Dah Suyht -- five
Yuh Suyht -- six
Il Gop -- seven
Yah Duhl -- eight
Ah Hope -- nine
Yuhl -- ten

Chinese:
qi -- energy, living power, spirit (same as ch'i)
shifu -- teacher (also "sifu")

Mandarin Cantonese

yi yut -- one
er yee -- two
san som -- three
si say -- four
wu ng -- five
liu look -- six
qi chut -- seven
ba bot -- eight
jiu gau -- nine
shi sup -- ten

====================================================================

13) A small bibliography:

_The Original Martial Arts Encyclopedia: Tradition, History,
Pioneers_. Corcorn/Farkas. Pro-Action Publishing.
ISBN Number: 0-9615126-3-6

_Go Rin No Sho---The Book of the Five Rings_.
Miyamoto Musashi

_The Essence of Ninjutsu_. Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi

_Budo Jiten_, 2nd Edition. F. J. Lovret
(***@CompuServe.com). Taseki Publishing.

_Comprehensive Asian Fighting Arts_. Draeger & Smith
Publisher: Kodansha International ISBN Number: 0-87011-436-0
ISBN Number in Japan: 4-7700-0913-5

_The Art Of War_. Sun Tzu

_Zen in the Art of Archery_. Eugen Herrigel

_The Bible of Karate: Bubishi_, translated with commentary
by Patrick McCarthy.

_Okinawan Karate_. Mark Bishop

_Karate-Do, My Way of Life_. Gichin Funakoshi

_Karate-Do Nyumon_. Gichin Funakoshi

_Karate-Do Kyohan_. Gichin Funakoshi

_The Student's Handbook_. Frederick Lovret

_The Filipino Martial Arts_. Dan Inosanto

_Absorb What is Useful_. Dan Inosanto

_Budo_. Morihei Ueshiba

_Zen in the Martial Arts_. Joe Hyams

_The Martial Artist's Book of Five Rings_, Translation by Hanshi
Steve Kaufman, Charles E. Tuttle Company, Inc., 1994.

In general, books from the Kodansha Editors carry a reputation
of being serious and at the same time direct and objective.

Publishers:

Pro-Action Publishing
A Division of Pro-Action Sports, Inc.
1717 N. Glendale Bl.
Los Angeles, CA 90026

Kodansha America, Inc.
114 Fifth Ave.
New York, NY 10011
212-727-6460
Tel. Orders: 800-631-8571 [Visa, American Express,
Mastercard only]

Taseki Publishing Co.
3579 Ruffin Road #205
San Diego, CA 92123
619-278-1348

=====================================================================

14) Sources of information

14.1) Martial arts schools in North America

(This section has been removed and is awaiting new information).

14.2) FAQ ftp site

The rec.martial-arts FAQ and Newbie Guide are available on
rtfm.mit.edu in the directory
pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/rec/martial-arts, with the filenames
rec.martial-arts_FAQ_part_1_of_3, rec.martial-arts_FAQ_part_2_of_3,
rec.martial-arts_FAQ_part_3_of_3, and rec.martial-arts_Newbie_Guide.

HTML versions of the FAQ are available at
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mcweigel/rmafaq/rmafaq1.html, rmafaq2.html, and
rmafaq3.html.

14.3) Aikido Dojo Directory

The Aikido Dojo Directory Listings is FTP'able in ASCII format from:

ftp://ftp-cse.ucsd.edu/pub/aikido
ftp://132.239.51.20/pub/aikido

There is also an online Aikido Dojo Search Engine at:

http://www.aikiweb.com/search

... which will allow you to interactively search through the above ASCII
lists.

14.4) Classical Japanese Martial Arts Electronic Magazine

_Budo Shinbun_ is an entirely electronic magazine devoted to the
classical Japanese martial arts. It runs under Windows 3.1 and
higher, and is complete with pictures. It is entirely automatic, and
requires only that the subscriber tell it to "get new" and it will
obtain the latest articles (mail too) for reading off-line. It is NOT
a BBS. Available from Taseki Publishing (address & phone number
above).

14.5) Traditional Karate Mailing List

Another discussion forum, this time a bit more specialized, is the
Traditional Karate Mailing List, maintained by Howard S. High, of
which we include some of the Charter:

Charter for the Traditional Japanese/Okinawan Karate Group List Name:
KARATE

PURPOSE:

The purpose of this group is to provide a forum for individuals who
practice one or more of the traditional Japanese/Okinawan Karate
styles to share information and discuss issues. This is the first
"CYBER-Dojo" as a training supplement to Karate. The list is
un-moderated, with restricted membership.

MEMBERS:

Application for membership is open to any individual who practices
traditional Japanese/Okinawan Karate (teachers and students). An
exception to this rule will be for those individuals who follow the
traditional values but does not belong to a traditional school due to
reasons beyond the individual's control. Another exception is for
individuals who have not yet selected a martial art to follow. This
list can help such individuals choose their path.

APPLICATION PROCESS:

A prospective member will send a subscription command to the LISTSERV
Host: ***@RAVEN.CC.UKANS.EDU

command: subscribe karate <firstname_lastname>

The Host will forward an automatic reply which includes the
questionaire and the Principles of Conduct. After completing the
application, the prospective member will forward the application to:

***@jkr.com

use Subject: Membership Request

The questionaire will be reviewed by the listowner. After review, the
list owner will either request more information from the applicant,
send a Welcome Letter to the new member, or advise the applicant why
the membership was not approved.

To find out more information about the Karate CyberDojo, link to the
following pages:

The Official Karate CyberDojo Web Page: http://www.ryu.com/CyberDojo

The Karate CyberDojo Journal: http://www.jkr.com/cyberdojo/journal

14.6) Aikido-L Mailing List

For those of you interested in an open Internet e-mail discussion list on
the Japanese martial art of Aikido, there exists the Aikido-L mailing
list.

The purpose of this group is open, public discussion of Aikido. Sharing,
understanding and and mutual respect are encouraged. Flaming and
arguments (such as 'my style is better than your style') are discouraged.

To join the list, send an e-mail to:

***@lists.psu.edu

... with the message:

subscribe Aikido-L Firstname Lastname

... in the body of the message.

To participate in the list once subscribed, simply send e-mail to
Aikido-***@lists.psu.edu.

The above instructions as well as options, FAQs, and information on
the Aikido-L Seminars are all available on the Aikido-L website:

http://www.aikido-l.org


14.7) Tuite/Acupuncture Discussion Group

PURPOSE:

The purpose of this group is to provide a forum in which the theories
of traditional Chinese medicine can discussed mainly in relation to
the martial arts.

The list is un-moderated, with restricted membership.

How to apply for membership:

All memberships are approved by the group administrator. Membership
is open to any open-minded martial artist, acupuncturist, alternative
healer, or anyone _actively_ interested in any of the above.

APPLICATION PROCESS:

A prospective member will send a subscription command to:

***@compassnet.com

In the body of the message will only be one line of the form -
subscribe <e-mail address>

The subject of the subscription request mail should be SUBSCRIBE to
provide quicker response. For example, if Joe Blow at
***@somewhere.com wishes to subscribe, he would send:

subscribe ***@somewhere.com

The list owner will receive the subscription request forward an
application to you. Further instructions will be provided with this
application. Subscription will NOT be granted without having completed
the application process.

Serious applicants only! Participation is the key to our group. If
your intention is to sign up, receive lots of in-depth knowledge from
others, and contribute nothing, do not apply. If everyone contributes
- - the whole will be greater than the sum of the parts!

POSSIBLE TOPICS FOR DISCUSSION:

- - Traditional Chinese Medicine - 5 Element Theory - Yin/Yang Theory -
Kata or Forms bunkai as it relates to TCM - Book/Video reviews -
Pressure point locations - Pressure point Knock Outs - Revival
techniques

14.8) The Martial Arts Digest

To subscribe to Martial-Arts-Digest, send the command: subscribe
martial-arts-digest

in the body of a message to "***@majordomo.cso.uiuc.edu". If
you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is
coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that
address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe
"local-martial-arts":

subscribe martial-arts-digest local-martial-***@your.domain.net

(NOTE: As of 5/97 this list seems not to be active. If you have
information on where it has moved, please contact the FAQ maintainer.)

14.9) Jujutsu and Kokikai Aikido Mailing Lists

To join one of the following lists, send an interactive message (if
you are on bitnet) or email (if you are on Internet) to either:

***@PSUVM (bitnet) ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU (Internet) with the
message:

SUBSCRIBE Listname 'your full name'

Lists:

JUJUTSU Jujutsu List KOKIKAI Kokikai Aikido List (The AIKIDO-L
list is discussed separately in section 14.6)

14.10) Japanese Sword Arts Mailing List and FTP site

iaido-l Japanese Sword Arts Mailing List

To join the Iaido list, send email to '***@uoguelph.ca' with the
command:

subscribe iaido-l <your name>

The iaido-l FTP site is at foxsun.nscl.msu.edu, where people can log
in anonymously and find all sorts of information in pub/iaido,
including the Japanese Sword Arts FAQ and dojo lists for North America
and Europe.


14.11) Chinese Shao-lin Center Electronic Mail List (CSC-List)

PURPOSE: To provide information, class and training schedules for
instructors and students (both active and non active) of Grand Master
Sin Kwang The' 's Shao-lin System.

SUBSCRIBING: send a message to ***@shao-lin.com with the words
"subscribe shaolin" in the body of the message.

Please send questions to the list owner: ***@ix.netcom.com.


14.12) Martial Arts and Sword/TV and Film Mailing List

To sign up, send a message to ***@psuvm.psu.edu, and write in the
body of the message:

Subscribe mastvf-l Your name

Please note that the list name is entirely alpha (that's an L, not a
1), and that you write your own name in where it says Your Name.

To send messages to the list, send to mastvf-***@psuvm.psu.edu. Personal
messages to the listowner go to ***@aol.com.

Please note that this list is unmoderated, but that no flaming will be
allowed! Anyone violating this rule will be suspended from the list,
and if the problem persists, they will be unsubscribed. This is a
friendly list, and we want everyone to be comfortable and feel free to
express themselves without fear of having someone jump down their
throat. Also, please note that this list is not echoed to or from
usenet; there is no direct newsgroup access.

Digest format is available if you want all the day's messages
collected in one large post. After you are subscribed, send a message
to ***@psuvm.psu.edu, and put in the body of the message:

Set mastvf-l digest

The purpose of this list is to discuss martial arts and sword work on
tv and in the movies, or conversely, to discuss any aspects of one's
favorite tv shows and movies that are oriented toward the martial arts
and sword.. Discussions of individual episodes of other programs that
are heavy on the martial arts or sword are welcomed as well.


14.13) Taichichuan Mailing List

A talk/discussion group of individuals interested in the art, history,
development and preservation of Tai Chi Chuan, Chi Kung, and related
arts. The Taichichuan mailing list can be subscribed to by sending
"subscribe taichichuan" in the body of a message to
***@ccsi.com.


14.14) Neijia (Internal Chinese Martial Arts) Mailing List

Neijia (internal chinese martial arts) mailing list can be subscribed
to by sending "subscribe neijia" in the body of a message to
***@lists.stanford.edu.


14.15) Kyudo (Japanese Archery) Mailing List

Kyudo, or Japanese archery, mailing list. This list is a general discussion
list about the topic of kyudo.

(un)subscribe requests:
address: ***@moltensky.com
subject: none needed
body: (un)subscribe

actual distribution list:
address: kyudo-***@moltensky.com

General questions queries comments and flames to:***@moltensky.com
(Tom Utiger)


14.16) Korean Martial Arts Mailing List

Do you practice Korean martial arts? e.g. Tang Soo Do, HwaRang Do, Kuk
Sool Won, Taekwondo, TaekKyon, Hapkido, Soo Bahk Do, Gumdo, Yudo, Ship
Pal Ki, Yu Sool, Kong Soo Do, Kung Jung Moo Sool, etc. Our readers
range from 9th gup (white belt) to 9th Dan.

Come practice with us at the The_Dojang, 9 years of continuous
operation.

the_dojang is a ~900 member e-mail distribution list for the RESPECTFUL
discussion of all Korean martial arts. We remain the oldest, largest
and the premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean martial
arts. All are welcome!

The list is managed by "Mailman". To subscribe to The_Dojang go to:

http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang

Brought to you by http://MartialArtsResource.com

Pil Seung!


14.17) Eskrima/Kali/Arnis Mailing List

Do you practice Eskrima, Escrima, Kali, Arnis, Dumog or some other
Filipino martial art? If so, why not join the Filipino martial arts
e-mail distribution list, the premier internet discussion forum devoted
to the FMAs.

The Eskrima list is a ~1100 member e-mail distribution forum for the
respectful discussion of the Filipino martial arts, for those
wheresoever dispersed around the globe. 9 years of continuous
operation.

The list is managed by "Mailman". To subscribe to the Eskrima list go
to:

http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima

Brought to you by http://MartialArtsResource.com

Mabuhay ang eskrima!


14.18) Martial Arts WWW pages

GroundAndPound: http://www.groundandpound.com covers news,
commentaries, techniques and tape reviews from all of the martial
arts.

Isshin-Ryu Karate:
http://www.physics.sunysb.edu:80/~gene/MA/isshinryu.html

World-Wide Martial Arts Supply:
http://www.corp-reflection.com/dojo/index.html

Judo Information Site: http://www.JudoInfo.com

West Los Angeles Karate School:
http://WLAkarate.com

The Official Karate CyberDojo Web Page: http://www.ryu.com/CyberDojo

The Karate CyberDojo Journal: http://www.jkr.com/cyberdojo/journal

Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai: http://www.jkr.com

Qigong/Eastern Philosophies: http://vitamins.net/forums/eastern

Uechi-Ryu and Traditional Okinawan Karate:
http://home.ici.net/~uechi/home/pulse.html

Brazilian Association of Krav Maga: http://www.kravmaga.com.br

Latosa Escrima: http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~keller/renel/renel.html

The Korean and Filipino Martial Arts web site:
http://www.MartialArtsResource.com

The World Martial Arts Academy WTF style KoreanTaekwondo site:
http://www.worldtaekwondo.com

The Virtual Library: Martial Arts: http://microbiol.org/vl.martial.arts

Martial Arts DataBase http://www.madb.de/index.en.html

Ready-made sticks:
http://www.bloodsport.com/index1.htm
http://www.stickman-escrima.com
http://www.mdenterprise.com/
http://www.canemasters.com/
http://www.dls.net/~vama/eskrima/stix.htm
http://lugani.com/visayanlegacy/index.html

Raw Rattan:
http://www.weavenet.com/brw.html
http://www.franksupply.com/bamboo.html

Training Knives/Live Blades:
http://www.cutleryshoppe.com
http://www.abc-direct.com
http://members.aol.com/rburgee876/edges.html
http://www.invis.com/kriscutlery/
http://www.coldsteel.com/

International Shao Lin Kung Fu Institute & Triad Kung Fu and Arnis Academy
4825-B Country Club Rd., Winston-Salem, NC 27104; www.dokungfu.com
Phone: [phone] Email: ***@dokungfu.com

Hontai Yoshin Ryu Jujutsu in the United States (and worldwide):
http://www.hyrusa.com

American Martial Arts Supply:
http://www.amas.net

14.19) Kung Fu Mailing List

The Kung Fu Mailing List is for the discussion of all traditional
chinese martial arts. To join, all one has to do is send a message to
***@leper.tamu.edu with either
subscribe kungfu
or
subscribe kungfu-digest

in the body of the message. The first is for a non-digest version
while the second is for people who just want to receive one daily
digest of the discussions.


14.20) Taekwondo Net Forum Mailing List

The Taekwondo Net Forum is a mailing list discussion forum for
martial arts that have origins in Korea.

If you would like to be added to this mailing list, send a message to
***@igc.org with these words in the body text of the message:

subscribe taekwondo-net

Though it is called "taekwondo-net", the forum is open to discussion
on all topics relating to all Korean Martial Arts.


14.21) Kempo Mailing List

The Kempo mailing list is an e-mail discussion group open to Kempo
and Kenpo practitioners to discuss Kempo/Kenpo and related manners.

To subscribe, send an empty e-mail to: kempo-***@egroups.com


14.22) Tuite-Ki Mailing List

'Tuite_Ki' was founded April 5, 2000
Membership is restricted/moderated.
Members: 50 (as of 7/25/00)

For more information: mailto:***@yahoo.com

Post message: ***@egroups.com
Subscribe: Tuite_Ki-***@egroups.com
Unsubscribe: Tuite_Ki-***@egroups.com
List owner: Tuite_Ki-***@egroups.com

Egroups.com Category: Top : Sports : Martial Arts
URL: http://www.egroups.com/group/Tuite_Ki


14.23) Policedo Mailing List

The Policedo discussion forum.

An e-mail distribution list for the respectful discussion of law
enforcement and martial arts matters, for all those wheresoever
dispersed around the globe. All are welcome!

How to join the Policedo email discussion group, a publication of the
PMAAI (Police Martial Arts Association International).

The list is managed by the "Mailman" listserver software. To subscribe
to the list go to:

http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/policedo

Brought to you by:
http://Policedo.com and http://MartialArtsResource.com

ORDO IUSTE (Order Justly)


=====================================================================

15) Sources for material & equipment

North America

Academy of Karate Martial Arts Supplies 405 Black Horse Pike Haddon
Heights, NJ 08035 609-547-5445

BLT Supplies, Inc., 77 Mulberry Street, New York, NY 10013-4438
Tel:[phone] Fax:[phone] Toll Free:800-322-2860
http://www.BLTSupplies.com E-mail: ***@BLTSupplies.com

Bugei Trading Company http://www.bugei.com

California S and P Inc. 10545-B San Pablo Ave.; El Cerrito, CA 94530;
USA 415-527-6032

Century Martial Art Supply, Inc. 1705 National Blvd.; Midwest City, OK
73110; USA 800-626-2787

Chris Nickolas American Arts Karate Martial arts supplies
(wholesale/retail) 4858 S. Main St. Akron, Ohio 44319 216-645-0818
Internet: ***@bellhow.com

Defense Arts, Inc. P.O. Box 1028; Smyrna, GA 30081; USA 404-434-0370

East West Markets Exchange, Inc. 5533 North Broadway; Chicago, IL
60640; USA 312-878-7711

Far East Books 2029 North Park St. Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada B3K
4B2 902-422-8142 FAX [phone] Internet ***@fox.nstn.ca
Chinese Martial Arts, Religions, and Healing Disciplines; catalogue
available

Honda Martial Arts Supply Co. 61 West 23rd St.; New York, NY 10010;
USA 800-USA-NYNY or 212-620-4050

Kathol Kreations - Martial Arts Belt Displays
http://katholkreations.hypermart.net

Kim Pacific Martial Arts Supplies 1451 Doolittle Dr.; San Leandro, CA
94577; USA 800-227-0500

Kiyota Company 2326 North Charles St.; Baltimore, MD 21219; USA
800-783-2232 or 410-366-8275

Macho Products 10045 102nd Terrace Sebastian, FL 32978 800-327-6812
e-mail ***@bb.iu.net

Martial Arts Supplies Co., Inc. 10711 Venice Blvd.; Los Angles, CA
90034-6294; USA 213-870-9866

Master Guard Chest Protectors - specializing in women's chest protectors
http://www.qp-sport.co.nz

Musashi Martial Arts 1842 S. Grand Ave.; Santa Ana, CA 92705; USA
714-557-4274

PAIS Enterprises P.O. Box 518, Miliken Post Office; Milliken, Ontario,
LOH 1K0, CANADA 416-299-8168

S & P of New York Budo, Inc. P.O. Box 2; Depew, NY 14043; USA
716-681-7911

Saghafi Enterprises 1604 Niagara Falls Blvd.; Tonawanda, NY 14150; USA
716-832-3322

Top Brands Box 51331; New Orleans, LA 70151; USA 504-522-4540

World-Wide Martial Arts Supply P.O. Box 3132 Bethlehem, PA 18017
***@corp-reflection.com
http://www.corp-reflection.com/dojo/index.html


Scandanavian Sources (most from a MA chain store called SBI)

SBI BUDOSPORT Sodra Forstadsgatan 66 Box 17092 200 10 Malmo SWEDEN
Tel: [phone] Fax [phone]

SBI Stockholm Torsgatan 40 (S:t Eriksplan) 113 62 Stockholm SWEDEN
Tel [phone] Fax [phone]

SBI Leksand Insjovagen 48 790 30 Insjon SWEDEN Tel [phone]

SBI Umea Backenvagen 87 902 51 Umea SWEDEN Tel [phone]

SBI Ostergotland Nygatan 31A 582 24 Linkoping SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)13
126680

WOLFGANGS JUDO & SPORT Box 88 820 77 Gnarp SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)625
20580

JT BUDOSPORT Box 3022 850 03 Sundsvall SWEDEN Tel [phone]

SHINPRO Gullberna Park 371 06 Karlskrona SWEDEN Tel [phone]

Intersport Lulea Storgatan 26 951 31 Lulea SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)920
17320

Charles Harbour Sport Gustavsborgsvagen 10 374 38 Karlshamn SWEDEN
Tel [phone]

Budoshopen Slakterigatan 6 721 32 Vasteras SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)21
143218

Orebro Gym & Kraftsportcenter Drottninggatan 29 = 702 22 Orebro
SWEDEN

Fighter Sport Storgatan 37 Postboks 4781 0506 Oslo NORWAY Tel
22114055 Fax [phone]

SBI Fighter Shop Jagtvej 70 2200 Kopenhavn N DENMARK Tel [phone]
Fax [phone]


Other Sources

Agate Impex 457 MODEL TOWN, SIALKOT, PAKISTAN; www.agateimpex.com.pk
***@agateimpex.com.pk


====================================================================
Disclaimer and Copyright Notice

Some answers given may reflect personal biases of the author and the
martial arts FAQ listing's contributors. The answers contained herein
pertain to discussions on the rec.martial-arts group, and are by no
means exhaustive.

The martial arts FAQ list owes its existence to the contributors on
the net, and as such it belongs to the readers of rec.martial-arts.
Copies may be made freely, as long as they are distributed at no
charge, and the disclaimer and the copyright notice are included.

[Matthew Weigel]

Archive-name: martial-arts/newbie-guide
Last-Modified: 28 July 2003

Martial Arts Newbie Guide
Version 2.0
Kirk Lawson

------------------------------

Subject: 1 - Table of Contents

1 - Table of Contents
2 - Introduction
3 - How To Look
4 - Where To Look
5 - How Much
6 - What To Look For
7 - What Not To Look For
8 - Rank
9 - When You Visit
10 - Should I Study More Than One at a Time
11 - The Dark Side of Martial Arts
12 - What Kind of Martial Art Suits Me
13 - Disclaimer and Copyright Notice

------------------------------

Subject: 2 - Introduction

So you want to be the next Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Helio Gracie, Chuck Norris,
or Master Pan. Congratulations and welcome to the wide world of Martial
Arts. You may be wondering what comes next. Where do you go, what do you
do, and are you going to have a dragon branded onto your forearm as you
lift a red hot brazier to exit the hidden monastery? The Purpose of this
document is to answer a few questions, give you an overview and maybe point
you in the right direction. It is intended as a companion documente for
the rec.martial-arts FAQ. Many of the topics in the Newbie Guide are
covered more in depth in the body of the rec.martial-arts FAQ proper but
we'll touch on them here in an abbreviated form.

------------------------------

Subject: 3 - How To Look

One of the questions asked ad nauseam is, "What is the best art?" or
sometimes its modified form, "I wanna kick butt and don't want fancy-schmancy
stuff, what art should I choose?" Well, the answer is, "We don't know."
There's much debate over what exactly is the "best art" or what is an
"effective art." It comes down to a lot of questions such as, "Best for
what?" and "Best for you or best for me?" In the end, it's a question
you're going to have to answer for yourself through personal exploration
and hard work. Since you're looking for a Martial Art to start, you should
look for the ones that are available to you. Simply put; it doesn't matter
if it's the ultimate kick-butt art, if you can't find a school near enough
to take classes at. With that thought in mind, you should look to see what
schools are available in your area and make your selection from those. If
you are looking for a specific art, you are still restricted to what's in
your area, so go ahead and look anyway.

------------------------------

Subject: 4 - Where To Look

OK, so we've established that you should look at the schools in your area.
All well and good, but how do you _find_ what schools are in your area?
Here are a number of recommendations.

- Recommendation of Friends - Ask your friends and associates. You might
be surprised how many people you work with or shop with are martial artists
themselves or know of reputable schools, particularly hard to find "Garage
Dojos" (see the FAQ).

- Bulletin Boards at MA supply stores - It goes without saying that a local
martial arts supply store would be a good central location, a gathering
spot, for local martial artists. They have to get their equipment from
_somewhere_. Look at the bulletin boards in these supply stores. Don't
rule out general athletic supply stores.

- Bulletin Boards at Asian bookstores - Since many martial arts are Asian in
origin, many martial artists have an interest in Asian culture and books
(particularly books about martial arts).

- Bulletin Boards at Super Markets & the like - Many "Super Stores" such as
Wal-Mart and Meijers have bulletin boards specifically for advertising
within the local community. These advertisements include bicycles for
sale, free puppies, and... martial arts studios.

- Bulletin Boards at Oriental Restaurants - Again, because many martial arts
are Asian in origin, many martial artists embrace Asian culture, including
Asian Cuisine. More then that, it seems a likely place to put up fliers
for martial arts studious looking for a place to put up said fliers. As
has been noted elsewhere, just because people working in these restaurants
are Asian, do not expect them to know anything about martial arts; some may
take offense at these sort of stereotypes.

- Local Colleges - Many colleges have martial arts clubs on campus. Judo is
particularly well known on college campuses, but, by no means, has a lock
on it. Some colleges even offer martial arts course for College Credit as
part of their Physical education curriculum.

- The 'Y', Civic Centers, and Community Centers - The YMCA/YWCA are havens for
martial arts schools. Included in the mix are Civic Centers, including
religious based Community Centers, Park & Rec. programs and Police Athletic
Leagues.

- Classified Adds, free newspaper adds - Another source is in the Classified
Adds of your local news paper or in the classifieds of various "free"
newspapers, typically available in bookstores and groceries.

- Welcome Wagon Baskets - Many martial arts studios will include special
promotions in Welcome Wagon baskets to new members of the community. These
promotions often include free classes, reduced rates, or free uniforms.

- Cultural Heritage Festivals - One of the common misconceptions is that all
martial arts are Asian in origin. Though many of the most well known are,
there are an amazing number that are Occidental (Western) or otherwise
non-Asian. Cultural Heritage Festivals often include a demonstration of
fighting arts from that proud culture, such as the Shillelagh from Ireland
or Gatka from India.

- Cultural Heritage Centers - The people there may know of schools, and in
some cases, might actually be holding classes of some kind in the facility.

- Renaissance and Western History Festivals or Clubs - Many Western Martial
arts such as Renaissance Combat Wrestling, Broadsword, Rapier, Bare Knuckle
Boxing, or Quarterstaff are often taught in clubs celebrating Western
Heritage or associated with such clubs. One example is The Association for
Renaissance Martial Arts (formerly Historical Armed Combat Association)
<http://www.thehaca.com>. The Society for Creative Anachronism
<http://www.sca.org> teaches some of these, typically in a "safe" "sport"
form but the local chapter can be a good place to start or they may be able
to direct you toward a school or instructor that can meet your needs.

- In the park - You might see an individual, or a group, practicing in your
local park. Even if you don't see any martial artists, if you chat to
folks, you might find someone who comes to the park frequently and has seen
a group that does practice there regularly.

- Local corporations - Many companies, especially larger ones, sponsor or
publicize employee group activities. These are not necessarily restricted
to employees of the company.

- Road Signs and Posted Advertisements - Most martial arts studios will put
up advertisements and fliers on telephone poles or at Mall entrances. They
will also often put up "directions" signs pointing towards their school
from major roads.

- Yellow Pages under "Martial Arts" or "Karate" - As always, the Yellow Pages
has a section for those willing to pay for advertising their phone number.

------------------------------

Subject: 5 - How Much

So how much is all this training going to cost? The short answer is: it
depends. Schools are free to charge whatever they want for their
instruction. How much they charge is a function of how much they think
their instruction is worth, how expensive goods and services are in that
area, and what their expenses are. Small "Garage Dojos" with little
overhead have been known to charge as little as $20 a month per student,
while instruction at other studios in comparatively expensive cities (such
as New York) could cost hundreds of dollars per month. The issue is
further complicated by bringing in differences in national location. In
other words, what is reasonable for a big city in Germany is not
necessarily equal to what would be reasonable in a big U.S. city. Thus, it
is not really possible to accurately predict how much you will be expected
to pay at any give school in any given location. However, currently it is
not seen as unreasonable for schools to charge between $40 and
$75 a month. In some rare cases, instructors will not charge at all. This is
often true for groups that meet in the park, such as some taiji (Tai Chi)
groups. Further, it should be noted that the PRICE of the instruction is not
always a good indicator of the QUALITY of the instruction. More on this in
"What Not To Look For."

Doubtless, you have noted that I've been speaking of monthly charges. This
is the most common way to pay: month by month. However, there are other
options with most schools. Often you may receive a discount for paying
ahead in 3, 6, or 12 month blocks. Some schools offer contracts.

A short discussion of contracts is warranted. Many martial artists are
wary of school contracts. Contracts have been known to be used by scam
artists in the past or, occasionally by legitimate martial artists who will
"stick it to you," enforcing payment terms of the contract should you wish
to be "out" of it for whatever reason. However, there are many legitimate
uses of contracts by martial arts schools. They can reduce costs for the
instructor and free him from tedious billing issues that can distract him
from teaching martial arts. Don't let the option of a contract dissuade
you from any particular school but be wary of schools that _require_ a
contract (and will not give you a month-to-month option) or contracts that
guarantee "black belt" within a given time frame.

You should note that training fees may not be the only fees associated with
your martial arts selection. Other fees often include fees for rank
testing. How much you pay for rank testing varies from art to art and from
school to school. Usually, earlier ranks are less expensive and more
advanced ranks are more expensive. You might be asked to pay $15 for your
first test and work your way up to $100 or more for your "black belt" test.
Some schools charge you the testing fee regardless of whether or not you
pass your test while others only charge you the fee if you actually pass.

Another "hidden cost" often seen in the martial arts is that of equipment.
Some martial arts require you to purchase a uniform (often the "white
pajamas" Gi). Inexpensive uniforms for striking arts such as karate can be
had for $20, heavier-weight uniforms for grappling arts such as judo start at
$50. Prices for the divided skirt and top used for some other arts such as
kendo start at around $100. Advanced students can pay as much as $200 for a
high-quality judo uniform, $400 for a high-quality kendo uniform. Your
instructor should be able to help you find an appropriate uniform or point you
to where you can buy one. But your equipment costs may not end there. You may
be required to purchase safety equipment such as sparring gloves, shin pads,
and head gear, or you may be required to purchase various "weapons" used
during practice such as staffs, swords, or knifes (usually a training "safety"
variety). Take heart though. Most schools have "loaners" available until you
can purchase your own.

You may also be required to join an organization and pay membership fees.
These are typically an umbrella organization that certifies the instructor
in their martial art. They can point you to affiliated schools that will
recognize your hard won rank and continue your training should you be
forced to move or be traveling abroad. These membership fees or dues are
typically on the order of $20 - $50 a year. Some organizations have a
lifetime membership program (or are lifetime memberships by default),
others are variations or only require yearly dues for "black belt" rank and
above. Your instructor will be able to tell you the details of his
organization, should he be a member of one. Be sure to ask about parent
organization dues before you join a martial arts school.

OK, so now you're paying all this money for training, equipment costs,
dues, testing fees, and the like... how do you know you're not getting
ripped off? Well, like everything else, shop around. Find out what other
schools are charging for these goods and services. Some "red flags"
include schools that require you to buy only their branded uniforms and
gear, require you to sign long contracts, have no "move refund" option in
their contract, or high-pressure sales pitches. If it feels like you're
buying a used car and the salesman insists you sign the contract now, smile
politely and head for the door.

------------------------------

Subject: 6 - What To Look For

So what are some of the things you should look for or ask about when
visiting a school? Number one, ask about the class schedule. If classes
only meet when you can't attend, it crosses the school off for you.

Another thing to look for is who is teaching the classes. Often, the
person teaching your class won't be the head instructor. Frequently the
head instructor will have some of his advanced students teaching classes.
This is particularly true if the school you choose has separate classes for
lower ranked and higher ranked students or if they have a "new student"
class. Don't let this dissuade you. Often instructors teaching "new
students" are doing so because they have shown an aptitude for helping new
students learn the basics of an art, perhaps even beyond that of the head
instructor. The ability to _teach_ a physical skill is often dissociated
to some degree from the ability to actually perform that skill at high
levels. Most professional boxers could whip the tar out of their coaches
even though their coaches know how to box. While on the topic, find out if
there is an "introductory" or "getting started" class or course. This can
be a good way to get up to speed quickly with the basics of an art or to
"sample" that school.

While visiting a school, spend some time talking to the students before or
after class. Talk to both high and low ranking students, they'll have
different perspectives. Spend some time understanding the atmosphere of
the school, it will take more then one brief visit. Some are strict
disciplinarian and some are easy camaraderie. Again, don't assume that the
instructor that runs his school like a drill sergeant produces kick-butt
martial artists while a more easy going school is lax or lackadaisical. They
are simply different teaching styles and one may be more appropriate to
your needs then the other.

Another thing to take note of is injuries. Let's face it, martial arts are
inherently dangerous. They are _martial_ and no matter how safe you train
or what safety equipment is used, there is a risk. There are bound to be
some injuries. However, the nature and frequency of the injuries are what
you should consider. A black eye is far different from an injured joint
and if broken bones occur frequently, that may indicate a problem. You
can't train while recovering from some injuries. Some injuries are
permanent and will affect you the rest of your life.

Finally, though uncommon, some schools have an "enrollment period." They
operate like college classes in that you can only join at certain times of
the month or year.

------------------------------

Subject: 7 - What Not To Look For

Some years ago a movie came out: They Call Me Bruce! In this comedy, an
Asian man made his way through a number of people who thought he was a
great martial arts Master simply because he was Asian, triumphing in the
end. The moral is clear and directly applicable. Do not assume that
because the instructor of a given school is Asian that he is, in some way,
superior to the instructor of another school who is not. Skill in martial
arts is not inherent to any given "race." Likewise, do not make the same
mistake concerning the sex of an instructor. There are many very talented
female instructors.

Don't let yourself be distracted by a fancy school or unrelated goodies
such as weight machines or saunas. A well kept, safe training area is one
thing but extraneous features, though nice, ultimately only add to the
expenses of the school. There are a good number of excellent instructors
teaching out of their garages, basements, and back yards.

Don't get distracted by uniforms either. Many Asian martial arts wear the
traditional "white pajamas" gi while other martial arts have different
uniforms and some, no uniform at all, preferring instead "street clothes" or
comfortable, loose fitting training clothes.

Also, don't pay too much attention to numerous trophies and medals.
Trophies are easy to come by in martial arts competitions. On top of that
they are inexpensive and easily purchased by unscrupulous scam artists from
the local trophy store. Though this practice is uncommon, it has been
known to happen.

Don't judge a school or instructor by how much they charge. It's human
nature to assume that a higher priced product is going to be somehow
better, yet this is not always true in the world of Martial Arts. Some
instructors are simply teaching for the joy of teaching and not trying to
make a living or any real money from it (more on this in the
rec.martial-arts FAQ). Some arts and Organizations discourage their
instructors from trying to make money from instruction and will therefore be
inherently less expensive. Yet other arts are the flavor du jour and suffer
from higher demand than there are available instructors, thus making them more
expensive. As long as the price of instruction falls within the range that
you are willing to pay, don't worry too much about it.

Further, don't pay too much attention to lots of certificates in Asian
script decorating the wall, particularly if you don't read the language
they're written in. Most instructors will display only the rank
certificate of their top rank (or the top rank they hold in each art
they're ranked in if they are ranked in more then one). In general, this
should mean that there aren't many certificates displayed. With the state
of current computer technology, it is easy to produce impressive looking
certificates that say anything you wish them to say, even that the bearer
is a high ranking martial artist.

Finally, don't be overly concerned with the rank of the instructor. While
in the early stages of training in your new art (say the first 10 years)
you probably won't be able to tell the difference between a 3rd Degree
Black Belt and a 9th Degree Black Belt.

------------------------------

Subject: 8 - Rank

One of the most misunderstood things about martial arts is rank. Different
people in the martial arts world have different feelings about the use of
ranking in the martial arts. Some feel it is all important, some that it
is of no import whatsoever, and others that it is a valuable tool not to be
given too much weight outside of its limited context. What you should know
is that most martial arts have a ranking system but many do not and that
rank within one system does not equate to skill within another system even
though the systems may be similar. Just because you know how to drive a
car doesn't mean you know how to operate a back hoe.

The most common ranking systems are the Japanese and the Korean systems.

The Japanese systems start with sub-"Black Belt" or Kyu ranks and work from
highest to lowest as skill increases, typically from 10th Kyu up to 1st Kyu
and then "Black Belt" or Dan rankings, from 1st Dan and going up to 9th
Dan. 9th Dan is typically reserved for the (one) highest ranking
instructor of the art, usually in Japan.

The Korean system works much the same way, simply substitute "Gup" for
"Kyu."

You should also know that some Occidental systems have a rank system, but,
when they do, they usually do not follow the 10th-1st sub-black belt then
1st Dan-9th Dan ranking that Asian systems do. Frequently Occidental
systems will rank a practitioner by number of wins in competition or a
combination of skill level rankings and competition wins. Savate schools
will typically operate in this manner. Other Occidental arts use an
archaic ranking system that includes 4 or 5 ranks starting with "Scolaire"
(Scholar) and culminating with "Maestro" (Master).

Be aware that the color of a belt as a rank in one system does not
translate to the same rank in another system. A "Green Belt" in one system
is usually not the same rank as a "Green Belt" in another system. The same
goes for Kyu/Gup ranks. As stated earlier, a Kyu/Gup rank in one system
does not equate to the same skill as an equally numbered Kyu/Gup rank in
another system. Simply put, you can not compare a 5th Kyu in "Karate" with
a 5th Gup in "Taekwondo" and they probably wear different colored belts.
At this point, it should go without saying that a "Black Belt" in one
system isn't really comparable with a "Black Belt" in any other system. It
only represents a certain level of skill obtained within _that_ system;
exactly what skill level that represents is entirely up to the instructors
who define _that_ system.

Again, don't be overly concerned with the rank of the instructor. You
likely will be unable to differentiate between a 3rd Degree Black Belt and
a 9th Degree Black Belt for many years. Further, it is held by many in the
martial arts world that you can learn a lesson from anyone, even the
lowliest practitioner. Learn the lessons that the instructor has to offer.

A final word of warning on the rank of the instructor. Beware claims of
inflated or high rank. It is not unheard of for a martial artist to break
away from his parent organization or instructor and award himself "9th Dan"
and "create" his own art. More then one instructor has made the leap for
3rd Dan to 9th Dan in this way with no real increase in his skill or
teaching ability. Further, some organizations have been known to grant
additional rank to instructors for "services to the art" such as opening a
school in an area previously unreached by that art or for some other notable
promotion of the art.

Beware any school where the instructor seems uneasy about you talking to
the students without the instructor standing right there. It's also not a
good sign if the instructor seems nervous, self-conscious, or hostile,
about you watching him/her teach, or if the students themselves seem
fearful or nervous around the instructor. Caveat emptor.

Finally, the natural question asked is, "How fast?" ...How soon will you
get your coveted Black Belt? How long before you can "defend" yourself?
How much time before you can kill everyone in your neighborhood without
breaking a sweat?

...We don't know...

Or rather, to be more precise, it depends. Each statement is a different
goal, though they all seem to be related. Again, a "Black Belt" means
different things to different martial arts systems. To some it means
"you've got the basics and are now ready for a little bit of a challenge."
To others, "You are competent in the system enough to be let out without a
chaperone." To others still, "you know enough to be able to defend against
the unskilled or moderately skilled." And to others yet, "you're an
'expert' in the same way that a new trade skill grad is an 'expert' but not
the same as a 20 years experience 'expert'." Remember, "Black Belt" is only
meaningful within the context of the system you're studying. That being
said, it is not unreasonable to expect that, with modest effort, the
coveted "Black Belt" may be achieved within 4 to 7 years of practice. Many
systems track, even require minimums of training or "mat" time between
promotions. It is thought to be more meaningful to talk of the number of hours
spent "on the mat" (ie, training), than to speak of the "number of years."
Simply put, if Dick spends 2 hours a day, twice a week, training to achieve
"Black Belt", and Jane spends 4 hours a day, 5 days a week, then Dick
is going to sweat for five long years to rack up 1040 total hours of
training, but Jane will have done that by the end of her first year.

As to the issue of being able to "defend yourself," that all depends upon
the skill level of the person or persons attacking you, your skill level,
weapons involved, and a myriad of other variables. The stories of students
with one class under their belts defending themselves are true, likewise
the stories of "Black Belts" being beaten up. There are just so many
variables involved that the question is near meaningless. However, the
more diligently you train and the more time you put into your training, the
more likely that, if the unhappy time ever comes, you will be able to
successfully "defend" yourself.

------------------------------

Subject: 9 - When You Visit

Here are some general guidelines to consider when visiting the schools you
have an interest in.

First, call ahead. Make sure that visitors are welcome. Some schools are
particular about what classes visitors are allowed to watch. Advanced
classes may be "off limits" to the public as well as "private lessons." It
should be a "red flag" if the school will not allow you to watch _any_
classes before paying money though. Further, some schools feel that simply
watching a few classes can not adequately give you a feel for their art.
They may encourage you to take an "introductory" class (sometimes at no
charge).

Next, be aware that most martial arts schools have rules of etiquette.
This almost always includes not wearing shoes inside the school or in
certain areas of the school. They will often provide a rack or shelf for
shoes just outside of the "restricted" areas. Never step onto the mat in
your street shoes. This can track dirt, pebbles, gum, grease, and other
substances onto the area where people may soon be having their faces
smooshed.

Also, be aware that many schools will have beginning and ending ceremonies
that they may ask you to stand during. Some may ask you to bow whenever
crossing the threshold of the school.

When you go to observe a class or visit with the instructor, wear clean,
casual clothes.

If you've been invited to join the class for a training session, or think
it's a possibility you might be asked to join once you show up, then bring
a t-shirt, shorts, and loose sweat pants to work out in. If you have
martial arts experience in some other (or even the same) style, and the
uniforms are roughly equivalent shapes, it would probably be acceptable to
wear your uniform, however it may be considered extremely rude, or at least
confusing, to wear any belt colour other than white. Ask the instructor
about what to do on this one. It might be that your red belt is just a
pretty ornament in their school, or it might indicate that you are the
respected founder of an acknowledged style. They may loan you a white belt,
request that you wear none at all, or not care in the least.

As always, be polite. If someone offers a hand to shake, then take it. If
someone bows, return the bow; try to emulate the bow they give you. Be
quiet during the class. Don't make noise or draw unnecessary attention.
If you are visiting the school in the company of a friend, don't converse
with each other. If you must do so, keep conversation to a minimum and in
a hushed tone. The object is to not interrupt the class or distract the
students who have paid good money for their instruction.

Further, show up early, before class starts. This will give you a chance
to observe "pre-class" interactions important to understanding the
atmosphere of the school. It will also give you the opportunity to talk
with the instructor and students. Write down a list of questions you want
to ask and bring it with you. If any other questions occur to you as you
watch the class, write those down so you can remember to ask the instructor
after the class is over.

As a general rule of shopping etiquette, don't discuss the other schools
you've been to or heard about. If you must discuss other schools, be sure
to avoid derogatory remarks about them. Avoid discussing the quality of
their instruction, etc. If you are asked about any prior experience in
martial arts you might have, go ahead and tell the instructor what your
experience is. This will help him understand what you know and may give him
a base to start your training from. Avoid comparing the two arts.

Finally, don't try to impress the instructor or students with your
knowledge of martial arts or foreign languages. It usually backfires.

------------------------------

Subject: 10 - Should I Study More Than One at a Time

It is not uncommon for more then one Martial Art to interest a potential
student. The logical question is, "Can I" or "Should I study them both?"

This is a matter of some debate and opinions differ. The prevailing wisdom is
a bit of a compromise. It is generally recommended not to study more then one
art at a time or, failing that, to get a good foundation in one art before
branching out, or "cross training," in another. The feeling is that the two
arts are likely to conflict with each other. They may require differing ways
of moving your body, differing postures, differing positions, and offer
differing solutions to given situations. These differences could serve to
confuse and frustrate the new student as he endeavors to apply what he has
learned in his classes.

After you have developed a good base in one art, you can then explore other
arts without undue confusion or overlap.

There are, however, some noted exceptions to consider. You may want to
consider cross training in arts that have very little overlap, that complement
each other well, or that fill in gaps you may feel are missing.

Another consideration is the instructors. Some instructors encourage cross
training or even teach multiple arts themselves while other instructors
strongly discourage cross training and may be upset to find a student cross
training. If cross training interests you, you should talk with the
instructors of each art to see how they feel about it before you start taking
classes there. They may already have a program in place or may be able to
make recommendations.

Further, cross training, even if it is advantageous and encouraged will
usually slow your advancement in each art far more then if you were to
dedicate all of your training time to just one.

Finally, as hinted at earlier, you should consider your personal resources.
Can you afford to pay for two different classes and all the associated
fees for each? Not only money, but, more importantly, your time resource.
You will need to dedicate a certain amount of time to the practice of each
art, both in class and out, in order to see advancement. Do you have the
time to dedicate to each?

Some examples of arts simultaneously trained include Tae Kwon Do with Hapkido,
Muay Thai with Brazillian Ju Jitsu, and Boxing with Judo.

------------------------------

Subject: 11 - The Dark Side of Martial Arts

Though it is touched upon in other portions of this Guide, it's worth spending
some time looking specifically at the dark, seamy underbelly of Martial Arts.

This is the place where people take advantage of you.

McDojo's

First, let's look at the dreaded "McDojo." These are usually schools who's
sole goal is to part you from your money without ever imparting any real
Martial Arts knowledge. These can sometimes be difficult to detect since part
of the successful money-student separation is to convince the student that
useful information is, in fact, being taught while devising ever more ways to
implement the money-student separation.

This separation is often achieved by having fee after fee after fee and
required expenditures on and on and on. For instance, schools that require
you to buy only their branded uniforms and gear, require you to sign long
contracts, have no "move refund" option in their contract, or high-pressure
sales pitches. Another common tactic is to have numerous belt test
requirements and sub-ranks, all with a fee, non-refundable if the student
"flunks" his test. An example would be a school which has students ranked,
"Second Stripe, Decided, Green Belt" or similar. These schools may also
require weekend training trips.

Besides the red flags listed above, a few other's that may indicate a "McDojo"
include: Any school that promises you a Black Belt in under 3 years or
routinely produces Black Belts in 2 years. Any school which seems to have
overly young or inexperienced experts (usually "Black Belts" or "Dan ranks") -
for example a school recently made the news, noteworthy because they had just
promoted a three year old toddler to "Black Belt" and they had a five year old
child as a 2nd Dan (second degree) "Black Belt."

Scams

Another variation on the McDojo effect are Scams. The number and variety of
scams are infinite, as any grifter can tell you. However, the same grifter
will also tell you that the most effective usually seem to be variation on a
few basic themes. In the Martial Arts world, one of these themes is the "Study
at Home" scam. One reason this is such an effective scam is that it's very
similar in appearance to legitimate training aids. The scam usually takes the
guise of an advertisement promising to impart vast knowledge and unbeatable
fighting skills with the purchase of a home study system, usually consisting of
Video Tapes or DVDs. The home practitioner then "studies" these videos, takes
a test, sometimes written, sometimes by video taping himself and then mails it
back to the originator for "grading" along with a sum of money. Naturally "rank"
is issued (usually the coveted "Black Belt") as well as a lead in for
additional "training." Of course, the consumers have become somewhat more savvy
and this exact scam takes in fewer marks then it once did. Another variation of
the scam is to simply not offer the "rank by mail," which is a dead give away.
Instead, the same "be an unbeatable killer" advertising is used to sell the
video material. A third variation of this particular scam involves actual "live"
training. A seminar is offered from which the attendees are guaranteed rank
(often teaching rank) in a new and unbeatable system. These seminars are usually
short, only a couple of hours, and often attempt to make some tenuous link to
military combatives such as the Marines or the Special Forces (linking to the
"unbeatable" skill of military groups is another common "hook").

Another variation of martial arts scams are questionable training aids. These
are devices or machines which, through their use, supposedly will confer
awesome capabilities to their users. They frequently take the form of exercise
aids with vastly exaggerated claimed benefits. Occasionally these devices can
take the form of a machine or appliance which will "teach" your body to perform
some devastating "secret" technique.

The reason these scams are so successful is that they so closely mirror
legitimate training aids. Video's, books, and seminars, exercise devices, even
weekend training camps, are all tools used by legitimate martial artists to
enhance their skills and improve their understanding. The critical difference
is that the scams typically promise great gains, impressive skills, or rank
for comparatively little investment of time.

Cults

Martial Arts hold a nearly unique place in society. They are, at most basic
not related to any social, moral, or religious principles. They are merely
"martial," or "pertaining to war or combat skills." Yet, at the same time,
many are drenched in philosophy and the "mental" benefits cited range from
improved self esteem all the way through metaphysical abilities. Simply put,
mysticism in Martial Arts is not only accepted, but often EXPECTED. Coupled
with the business or organizational structure of many Martial Arts, this
produces a prime candidate for cult like organizations to spring up. All of
the required markers or precepts are easily applied. For instance, the
required attitude to "trust without question" a leader or central authority
is readily accepted behavior in many Martial Arts. Simply put, the instructor
knows what he's talking about, you should listen to what he says even if you
do not understand why. Most often this is a safety or training issue. The
experienced instructor knows that a certain way is safest or most likely to
produce results. That alone is no more proof that a certain Martial Art is a
cult than the requirement to follow orders instantly and without question is
evidence that the Army is a cult. However, it does place an instructor in a
position of power to abuse emotionally vulnerable people. Though fortunately
rare, cult like indicators have been seen including: 1) Complete emotional
dependence upon a central authority figure 2) Accepting without question
directives from a central authority figure 3) Isolation of group members and
restriction of their association to other group members exclusively, including
communal living and breaking ties with family and close friends 4) Single
minded recruitment into the group 5) Relinquishing control of personal assets
to the central authority figure. Of course, this is a short and perforce
slightly vague list. If you suspect someone may be becoming involved in a cult
of any sort, whether Martial Arts or otherwise, research the organization
thoroughly and consult a licensed mental health care professional.

Two examples of Martial Arts organizations that closely match cult profiles
are: Chung Moo Do, and Kanzen Kenpo

Sexual Predators - Pedophiles and Power Abusers

Another area of concern for many people is that of sexual abusers. This is
generally of greatest concern to parents. How can you know that the Instructor
is not a Pedophile? The Martial Arts world frequently generate exactly the
recipe needed for a Pedophile to successfully engage in his preferred
perversion: unsupervised access to children. In fact, it's gone one better.
The instructor is, by default, placed in a position of authority and trust for
the child. This danger can be doublely compounded by some standard activities
associated with Martial Arts such as weekend seminars in remote or isolated
areas and out of town, over-night, competitions. Fortunately the safe-guards
for children in the Martial Arts are the same as for any other activity.
Check the background of a potential instructor. You can check with the local
Police Department for complaints or criminal history (a wise idea whatever the
case) as well as consulting databases (many of them "on-line") listing Sexual
Predators. Ensure that the child is never alone and unsupervised. Go with
your child to his classes (be sure to sit quietly to the side; take reading
material or a quiet hobby). Many schools even have a special area where
parents can sit and watch the class. Whenever your child has an out of town or
over-night function, accompany them or have a trusted adult accompany them.
Go with your child to watch his competitions. It's an enjoyable spectator
event and will show your child that you support his interests. Finally, pay
attention to your child. Observe changes in behavior that might indicate
emotional trauma such as withdrawing from friends and family, hostility, or
depression. Listen to your child and talk with them about the dangers of the
world and what is and is not acceptable conduct from others. For further
tips and advice consult your local Police Department.

Sexual Power Abusers are not generally thought of in the context of a Martial
Arts instructor. While the idea of a Boss at a work place or a Professor at
a University being a sexual power abuser is fairly well accepted, often the
idea of applying the same context to other authority figures is overlooked.
Unfortunately some Martial Arts instructors have used their positions as an
authority figure to prey sexually on their students. This is a difficult
subject. On the one hand, most would agree that it is unethical for an
instructor to use his position to influence or compel a student into a
relationship with him. On the other hand, if a student is an adult and is
consenting, what harm? The Martial Arts world is replete with stories of
couples who met as Martial Arts instructor and student and then pursued a
romantic relationship successfully outside of the school. Further, some
students are actually attracted to the power and authority of a Martial Arts
instructor, much as some are attracted to athletes or politicians. The best
advice for adults is to be very careful and use common sense. Naturally, if
an instructor (or even a fellow student) is making unwanted advances, tell
them that you are not interested. Be polite but clear and firm. You're not
interested in pursuing a relationship beyond mutual adherents of a Martial
Art. If the unwanted advances continue, your road narrows somewhat. If the
advances are from a fellow student or Assistant Instructor, go to the Primary
Instructor and explain the situation. Ask him to help you and to talk to the
offending person. Chances are this has happened before and the instructor may
not have known about it. Regardless, most instructors are wary of law suits.
If, on the other hand, the unwelcome advances are from the Chief Instructor or
Owner then your only recourse may be to simply leave that school and seek
instruction elsewhere. You may be able to file a complaint if the school is a
member of a larger national or international organization but do not count on
this curing anything. Some organizations may take steps to chastise or even
revoke the instructor's membership, other organizations may do nothing. Unless
a crime, such as rape has occurred, the legal system will probably be little
help. Over all, your best option may simply be to seek instruction elsewhere.

------------------------------

Subject: 12 - What Kind of Martial Art Suits Me

So you still don't know quite what martial art might suit your desires
best. Won't take 'no' for an answer huh? OK. Well here are some ideas
that may help you narrow your search.

What are you looking for in a Martial Art? If you know what you want out
of it, you'll have a better idea of what "kind" of art to look for.
Typical answers include:
Better Physical Fitness
Street Useful Self Defense
Sport Competition
Striking Techniques (Punching/Kicking)
Joint Lock Techniques
Grappling Techniques (some similarities to wrestling)
Pressure Point Techniques
Traditional/Oriental Weapons
Street/Common Weapons
Mental & Emotional/Spiritual Development
Attractiveness/Fluidity of Movements (this is very subjective)
Traditional "Feel"
Speed of Advancement/Ease of Learning Techniques

Brief Descriptions of these:

Better Physical Fitness:
Some people's primary motivation in a Martial Art (MA) is improving their
Physical Fitness. To them, if they can learn a MA while getting fit, so
much the better.

Street Useful Self Defense:
A primary motivation for many is the ability to truly be able to defend
themselves in a street confrontation against typical street techniques and
weapons.

Sport Competition:
Many arts contain a greater or lesser degree of competition and some will
encourage their students to compete in local and national MA sporting
events in competition restricted to that particular MA and in various open
competitions. Awards and medals are sometimes given. Arts that emphasize
competition too much are thought by some to sacrifice some of the self
defense value to ingrained competition safeties. Arts that are well known
for their sport value include Tae Kwon Do (TKD), Judo and Kendo.

Striking Techniques:
This is more a facet of a MA and typically describes punching and kicking
techniques. Some arts emphasize this to a greater or lesser degree with
some focusing on it almost to the exclusion of all other techniques and
with some teaching nearly none of it. Arts that are well known for their
striking techniques include most Korean arts like Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon
Do, and Okinawan/Japanese Karate.

Joint Lock Techniques:
This is more a facet of a MA and typically describes techniques that lock,
restrict, manipulate, or sometimes break and dislocate the joints of the
aggressor. Some arts emphasize this, to a greater or lesser degree, with
some focusing on it almost to the exclusion of all other techniques and
with some teaching nearly none of it. In arts that teach a variety of
other techniques, joint lock techniques are typically thought of as an
"advanced" teaching and are typically reserved for higher ranks. Arts that
are well known for their joint lock techniques include Aikido, Pencak
Silat, and Japanese Jui Jitsu (such as Aikijitsu and others).

Grappling Techniques:
This is more a facet of a MA and typically describes techniques that are
similar to wresting in many ways and include throws and groundfighting
techniques (what to do when one or more combatants are at least partially
on the ground and not standing). Some arts emphasize this to a greater or
lesser degree with some focusing on it almost to the exclusion of all other
techniques and with some teaching nearly none of it. Arts that are well
known for their Grappling/Groundfighting are Judo, Brazilian Jui Jitsu, and
some other types of Jui Jitsu.

Pressure Point Techniques:
This is more a facet of a MA and typically describes techniques that
manipulate pressure points on the human body. These "points" can in some
cases cause a great deal of pain and some practitioner say that Pressure
Point manipulation can slow down the aggressor, cause limbs to go numb,
stun or even kill an aggressor outright (though this is an extremely
advanced technique not taught to everyone and is still open to controversy
in the MA and Medical world). Some arts emphasize this to a greater or
lesser degree with some focusing on it almost to the exclusion of all other
techniques and with some teaching nearly none of it. Arts that are well
known for their Pressure Point techniques include some types of Kung Fu
(there are over 50 well know Kung Fu forms), and some types of Jui Jitsu.

Traditional/Oriental Weapons:
This is more a facet of a MA and typically describes techniques with
weapons not considered to be militarily effective, or street convenient by
today's standards. These weapons would include sword, spear, bow, and
staff. Some arts emphasize this to a greater or lesser degree with some
focusing on it almost to the exclusion of all other techniques and with
some teaching nearly none of it. Arts that are well known for their
Traditional/Oriental Weapons techniques include many forms of Kung Fu, many
Okinawan Karate forms, and some Japanese forms such as Kendo, Kenjutsu, and
Iaido.

Street/Common Weapons:
This is more a facet of a MA and typically describes techniques with
weapons considered to still be militarily effective, or street convenient
by today's standards. These weapons would include knife, club,
cane/half-staff. Some arts emphasize this to a greater or lesser degree
with some focusing on it almost to the exclusion of all other techniques
and with some teaching nearly none of it. Arts that are well known for
their Street/Common Weapons techniques include many forms of Kung Fu, many
Okinawan Karate forms, and some Japanese forms, and especially Indonesian
forms such as Pencak Silat, and Philippines forms such as Kali, Arnis, and
Escrima.

Mental & Emotional/Spiritual Development:
This is often considered a strong benefit of taking MA's. Many instructors
advertise their MA directly to parents as a way of increasing children's
Self Confidence, Socialization Skills, and Personal Well Being. Spiritual
development is a strong component of many but not all MA's. The Japanese
word "Do" (when applied to a MA) is considered to mean "way" or "path" to
Spiritual Enlightenment or personal understanding (Koreans arts ending in
"Do" have a similar meaning). In general, any Japanese art ending in Do
will have to a greater or lesser degree a Spiritual or Self Improvement
aspect, while Japanese arts ending in Jitsu are primarily concerned with
martial abilities and will have little or no concept of Spiritual
Enlightenment or Self Development, except as is important and added by the
instructor. This is largely dependent upon the instructor in any system.
Arts known for their emphasis on Spiritual Development include many forms
of Kung Fu, especially Shaolin Kung Fu, taiji and certain Japanese "Zen"
martial arts such as the Aikikai form of Aikido. (note: lots of
generalizations here)

Attractiveness/Fluidity of Movements:
This is one that's as hard to pin down as the Spiritual aspect. Suffice it
to say that some arts just look prettier than others. A master in most any
MA is going to have a fluidity and grace of movement, however that is not
always true of the students. As a gross generalization, typically,
"circular" arts will appear more fluid and graceful than "linear" arts. A
simplistic definition of circular vs. linear is that each variation tends
to have a greater emphasis on movements and techniques in its "category."
Thus circular arts will tend to have a lot of sweeping circular and rounded
movements, while linear arts will tend to move in more direct lines. Also
as a gross oversimplification, linear arts tend to be "hard" (direct and
force/impact oriented) while circular arts tend to be much more "soft"
(redirect and control oriented). One more gross oversimplification,
circular techniques tend to be more difficult to master than linear.
Striking arts tend to be more linear and Joint Lock & Grappling arts tend
to be more circular. Examples of largely circular arts are Aikido and
certain Kung Fu forms (Baguazhang / Pa Kua Chang). Examples of largely
linear arts include Tae Kwon Do and Karate. An example of a very exciting
and fluid art is Chinese Wu Shu.

Traditional "Feel":
This describes the feel of the "weight of tradition" that is attractive to
some Martial Artists. Some MA players like to feel like they are
participating in a tradition thousands of years old and readily accept
ancillary aspects of MA study such as bowing and foreign terminology. Most
MA's have an aspect of "tradition" to them, especially the Asian arts
(i.e., Chinese, Korean, Okinawan, Japanese) and almost all MA's have a code
of etiquette to follow while in the training hall. Frequently there are
rituals involved, some with religious significance, some merely as a show of
respect for the founder or the instructor. Some MA's require a uniform and
some (such as Capoeira or Pencak Silat) may not, at the instructor's
discretion. In general, how "traditional" an art feels is almost entirely
dependent upon the local instructor. Any given art has instructors who
prefer an informal environment or a more formal one. Generally, the
further back the roots of the art stretch, the more instructors there are
that will prefer a formal or semi-formal environment though this is
anything but a hard rule. Further, societal origins will tend to have an
effect on the formality of the training environment. Japanese arts for
instance tend to be more formal in nature as the Japanese society has a
long standing history of formality in the minutia whereas arts that are
American in inception (there are a few) will tend to be very informal since
the American society is a largely informal society.

Speed of Advancement/Ease of Learning Techniques:
There are really two separate issues here, though many people equate them.
A common question is "how long must I study before I know the art?" or
alternately "how long must I study before I get a Black Belt?" Whereas,
another common question is "how long must I study before I can defend
myself?" The nature of these two questions is different. Most people
equate Black Belt with having achieved Martial Arts godhood. This couldn't
be further from the truth. The actuality is, typically, Black Belt (or
First Dan) is where a student is finally gaining a base level of competency
and understanding in his art. One description that I recently read was to
think of a Black Belt as if it were a Bachelors degree from college. It is
an expert level, but not a Doctorate level, or even a Master's Degree.
Those are more typically associated with higher Dan ranks. This is an apt
description since in most reputable MA's, it should take between 3 and 5
years practice to be awarded a Black Belt. It is not unheard of for a
reputable school to produce an occasional black belt in 2 to 3 years,
however, this person is either unusually dedicated and practices on a
nearly daily basis or is a Martial Arts Prodigy. Any school that promises
you a Black Belt in under 3 years or routinely produces Black Belts in 2
years is what's sometimes referred to as a "Black Belt Factory" or a school
that "Sells Black Belts" (McDojo) and should be avoided. That being said,
the question still remains "how long must I study before I can defend
myself?" If home defense is your only goal, buy a gun and learn to safely
use it. You can become proficient in the safe use of firearms in a far shorter
time than a MA, and firearms are typically much more effective. Why do
you think the Military uses them? Or perhaps you should buy a dog.
Statistics show that less than 5% of homes that own _any_ sort of dog will
_ever_ be burglarized (this includes those hairless rat-dogs the
Chihuahua). If this is not an alternative for you or if you are also
concerned about protecting yourself where you can not, for various reasons,
take your gun or your dog, then perhaps a MA is for you. How much study it
takes for you to become effective at defending yourself is a component of
many different things, including the art its self, your aptitude at
learning it, and the abilities of the person attacking you. The stories of
Black Belts being beat up by untrained drunks are true. And also, the
stories of new students using the MA to successfully defend themselves
against rapists and murderers are also true. Whatever the case for your
aptitude, the more effort and practice you put into learning your chosen
MA, the better you will be at defending yourself and your family.

------------------------------

Subject: 13 - Disclaimer and Copyright Notice

Some answers given may reflect personal biases of the author and
contributors. The answers contained herein pertain to discussions on the
rec.martial-arts group, and are by no means exhaustive.

The martial arts Newbie Guide was created from an outline of an earlier
document, also titled "The Newbie Guide" by Jeff D. Pipkins as well as
information from the creator of this document, Kirk Lawson (additional
contributors listed at end). It is the intention that this document be a
companion document to the current rec.martial-arts FAQ. The author, Kirk
Lawson, grants rights to update, maintain, modify, and distribute this
document provided that you abide by the "no profit" restrictions detailed
hereafter.

You are specifically granted the right to distribute this document in any
storage or display format including, but not limited to, HTML, RTF, .DOC,
PDF, or direct telepathic transfer.

You are granted the right to copy, store, modify, and distribute this
document provided that a) This Disclaimer, Copyright, and any version
history or creator/contributor attributions are included. b) That you
charge no monies for the distribution of this document, excepting a nominal
charge for the cost of media upon which it may be distributed. If you wish
to include this document in any for-profit publication or to include it in
any pay-per or price metered medium or delivery, you may only do so with
the express permission of the original document author, Kirk Lawson.
Basically, if you want to modify or distribute this document for free,
fine, go ahead and do it, but if you want to make money off of it, I want
my cut.

Kirk Lawson: ***@heapy.com or ***@dayton.net

Additional Contributors:
Lauren Radner - ***@us.ibm.com
Steve Gombosi - ***@amaterasu.scd.ucar.edu
Kevin Hill - ***@jdsu.com
Matthew Weigel - [e-mail]
Ted Bennett - ***@ntlworld.com
Neil Gendzwill - ***@sedsystems.ca

[L***@tivoli.com]

Archive-name: martial-arts/faq/part4
Last-modified: 15 September 1997

Posting-Frequency: twice per month


rec.martial-arts FAQ - Part 4 of 4
==================================

Note: The sole author/maintainer of the Groaner FAQ is Lauren Radner.
Please address any replies to Lauren (***@tivoli.com).


The Groaner FAQ for Martial Arts Newsgroups (ver 1.0)
by Lauren Radner (with lots of help)

One of the primary reasons for creating the rec.martial-arts.moderated
newsgroup was to avoid "Groaner" topics... you know, the kind of
thread-from-hell that pops up over and over, with just enough
variation that you probably can't killfile it successfully.

In short, every time you see one of these come up again, you *groan*.

In these threads, nobody's mind is going to be changed, tempers will
probably flare, and the topics may even be based on assumptions that
are unprovable, insulting, or just plain wrong.

Maybe you got directed here by someone who's been around longer, and
told you something like, "Go read the Groaner FAQ, number 19".

Most of these are *not* "Frequently Asked Questions". Many of them are
more like "Frequently Made Assertions" (TKD sucks. Kata sucks. 90% of
all fights go to the ground. Gracies are invincible. etc.). Few of those
are ever raised as actual, *legitimate* *questions*. Even if they are,
they almost immediately devolve into rude and foaming assertions, or,
at least, wearisome assertions, anyway.

Many of these are off charter in rec.martial-arts.moderated for exactly
these reasons.

A "Groaner" is any of the following:

1) A question guaranteed to start a flame war or a style war, no matter
how innocently asked.

For example, "Is <style A> any good in a street fight?"

Anybody who practices <style A> will say yes. Anybody who doesn't
will say no (that's why they practice <style B> instead).

2) A question so vague that it generates no useful answers, or a flame war,
or a style war.

For example, "Which martial art is best?" averages about three posts
before devolving into a flurry of "Mine!" "No! Yours sucks! Mine's
the best!". Everybody else is wondering "Best for *what*?" and
doesn't bother to answer your question.

3) An old chestnut that people are tired of refuting or correcting. This is
the martial arts equivalent of an urban myth. These topics elicit the
same response that you have when you see "Craig Shergold Needs Your
Cards" in your e-mail inbox.

For example, "Belts have all those colours because you start out
with a white belt, and the more you work out, the dirtier it gets,
until it eventually turns black, when you're really, really good."

4) A statement about which there are strong contradicting opinions, and
nobody is EVER going to change anybody's mind. These are the religious
wars of martial arts newsgroups.

For example, "Chi(Qi,ki) does/doesn't exist", or "Kata is/isn't
useless".

5) A statement guaranteed to annoy, and impossible to prove.

For example, "Bruce Lee would have kicked Stephen Seagal's a**!",
or "<style/person> must be the best in the world because <it/he/she>
has never been defeated!"

(I would like to point out here that I am undefeated in all of Asia.
Of course, I have never fought in *any* of Asia. Which pretty much
guarantees I'm undefeated there.)


The purpose of the Groaner FAQ is to beg you, PLEASE, have the courtesy
not to start these up again. There's nothing new that can be said, and the
bandwidth and flaring tempers are intolerable. If you've read the below
and *Really* think you truly have something *New* to add, well then, sigh,
I can't stop you. But don't say I didn't warn you.

Right now, this is a "work in progress". A team of us have identified
what we consider to be "Groaners", and we're churning out answers as
best and as fast as we can, meaning, when we can stand to think about
them ourselves. At this point, only the "FINISHED" answers are appended.
You'll see the rest handled in due time, I hope. A screen-wide line of
"=====" separates each answer.

===========================================================================
F = "FINISHED"- Groaners whose answers are complete (or nearly so).
P = "PARTIAL" - Groaners that have some foundation for an answer, but
aren't finished.
N = "NOTHING" - Groaners that haven't been touched (We don't like thinking
about these either, ya know).

F - 1) My martial art is better than yours. (see "What is a martial art")
P - 2) X is/isn't effective "on the street".
N - 3) <Movie Star> is/isn't a superior martial artist.
N - 4) <Movie Star A> could/couldn't whip <Movie Star B's> ass.
F - 5) Wing Chun Roolz. (see "What is a martial art")
N - 6) Bruce Lee was the best martial artist ever, philosophically and
physically ahead of his time.
N - 7) TKD was practiced by one-celled amoebae who passed it down to
Jhoon Rhee, and is therefore the oldest martial art.
P - 8) Guns/knives do/don't make you invincible.
F - 9) A three-day course does/doesn't make you invincible.
N - 10) Gracie Brothers are/aren't invincible.
N - 11) Kata are/aren't useless.
N - 12) How do you fight an attack dog?
N - 13) TKD is/isn't a dessert topping.
F - 14) Style X is trash/wonderful because it does/doesn't include a
philosophic aspect. (see "What is a martial art")
P - 15) The belt system colours are like that because as a white belt gets
dirtier...
P - 16) Which constitutes a worse attack, gun versus knife?
P - 17) Will I get sued/jailed if I use my martial arts?
P - 18) Do sprays work, do tasers work, do whistles work?
F - 19) What's the best martial art for self-defense?
F - 20) 90% of all fights end up on the ground.
F - 21) Is a gun the best martial arts defense?
F - 22) What are the chances of an unarmed martial artist versus a
gun-wielder?
P - 23) So I'm sparring and the other guy starts to bleed, can I catch
AIDS?
===========================================================================

===========================================================================
Below answers these Groaners:

1) My martial art is better than yours. (see "What is a martial art")

5) Wing Chun Roolz. (see "What is a martial art")

14) Style X is trash/wonderful because it does/doesn't include a
philosophic aspect. (see "What is a martial art")

===========================================================================

WHAT IS A MARTIAL ART?

The term "martial art" is used in (at least) two different ways. This
can be confusing. Some dictionary definitions only make things worse.

The dictionary definition handy at the moment defines a martial art
as "Any of several Oriental arts of combat or self-defense, as karate,
judo, or tae kwon do, usually practiced as a sport."

That definition is guaranteed to offend just about everyone who reads
this group.

Typically this group uses "Martial Art" in one of two ways:

1) The first definition is a generic one, which defines a "Martial Art"
as the study of any kind of combat and/or self-defense techniques.

This definition includes non-oriental arts like boxing. This definition
includes both those arts practiced primarily as a sport, and those arts
practiced primarily for self-defense. This definition includes those
arts that emphasize only physical technique. This definition also
includes those arts that emphasize a philosophical or mental aspect in
addition to physical techniques. In its broadest usage, this definition
includes learning how to drive a tank or drop bombs out of a plane as a
Martial Art. This explains the somewhat facetious references you will
see to "Gun Fu", the martial art of learning how to use firearms
(implying, as the dictionary definition does, that a martial art must
be oriental to be legitimate).

2) The second definition is much narrower, and draws a distinction
between a "Martial *ART*" and a "Martial *WAY*". To offer a gross
simplification:

A martial *art* is the study of an art that emphasizes only physical
techniques. Perfection of technique is the primary concern.

A martial *way* emphasizes the study of both physical techniques and
a philosophical or mental aspect as well. Perfection of the self is
the primary concern.

The emphasis on this distinction is very clear for those arts that have
Japanese names.

Typically, Japanese martial *art* style names end in "jutsu", such as
"jiu-jutsu", "aiki-jiujutsu", or "ken-jutsu".

Typically Japanese martial *way* style names end in "do", such as
"ju-do", "aiki-do", or "ken-do".

A lot of bandwidth has been wasted by those arguing about whether something
is or isn't a martial art, without first establishing which definition -
including the dictionary definition - is being used.

According to the dictionary definition, boxing is *not* a martial art.
According to definitions one and two, above, boxing *is* a martial art.

According to the dictionary definition and definition one, above, karate
*is* a martial art. According to definition two, above, karate (frequently
written as karate-do) is *not* a martial art (it is a martial *way*).

In the end, it is really the attitude of the individual doing the
practicing that determines whether, for *them*, what they are learning
is a "martial art" or a "martial way". The person standing next to you
in your school may or may not be practicing with the same attitude as
you are - one of you may be treating what you learn as a "martial way",
and the other may be approaching the same material as a "martial art".

A Note About Posting Etiquette In rec.martial-arts.moderated
and rec.martial-arts
--------------------------------------------------

A word of caution.

Posting that your martial *art* is superior to another martial *art*
will always get you into trouble, since it is a breach of not only
netiquette, but the charter of this group.

You will get into trouble for the following reasons:

1) If you are proclaiming superiority because your "Art" has a
philosophical aspect that some other art lacks, you will seriously
annoy those who use the definition of "martial ART" as meaning "the
study of technique with no inherent emphasis on philosophy". You will
be forever embroiled in a semantic clash based on the differences
between definition one, and definition two, above.

2) Proclaiming superiority of one art over another involves some extremely
annoying assumptions, such as that:

a) You are fully aware of all the philosophic principles (if any) and
physical techniques and applications of the art you are condemning.

b) You are fully aware of all the philosophic principles (if any) and
curriculum intended by the founder(s)/leader(s) (if any) of the
art you are condemning.

c) You are intimately familiar with the motivations, philosophies,
skill level, abilities, method of practice, and experiences of each
and every practitioner of the art you are condemning, especially
those practitioners who may read your post (trust us, you aren't).

d) You have enough familiarity with the philosophical foundations
(if any) and physical techniques of whatever you practice, and
you exemplify these sufficiently, that you can legitimately
represent yourself as an authority of your style.

e) Your definition of "better" is somehow universally accepted as the
One True Basis For Evaluation. (Better for what? Defending oneself?
Becoming limber? Winning trophies? Subduing without injuring an
aggressor? Killing an aggressor? Meeting people? Learning Japanese?
Being lethal to music? Building self-esteem? Firing a gun with the
most accuracy?)

Posting that one art is superior to another is bad manners.

A posting which also violates any of the above is a combination of
arrogance and stupidity for which you will probably never be forgiven.

An unfortunate side-effect is that you will probably ruin your credibility
as far as any future postings on *any* martial arts topic to this group.
Except for whoever agreed with you to begin with, of course.


========================================================================
The below answers this Groaner:

15) The belt system colours are like that because as a white belt gets
dirtier...
========================================================================

What do all those different colored belts mean? Where do they come
from?

The belt system, as a formalized method of indicating rank, was
popularized by Professor Jigaro Kano, founder of Kodokan Judo, around
the beginning of this century. There are varying opinions as to
whether the practice predated Kano's use of it, and where it may have
come from, but it certainly wasn't common (the more traditional
practice in Japanese martial arts was, and is, the granting of scrolls
indicating various levels of abilities). The practice was adopted by
Karate, formerly a fairly obscure Okinawan folk art, as that art was
brought into the mainstream of Japanese martial arts. Many arts have
since adopted it -- for example, some Western schools teaching Chinese
martial arts use it, though this practice is somewhere between uncommon
and unheard of in China itself.

Some of these schemes are elaborately hierarchial; some schools
use no belt ranking system at all. White belts almost always
indicate beginners, black belts indicate those who have reached
some level of ability. There are various colors used for rankings
both below black belt, and for high ranking black belts, and various
explanations as to what they mean. The color scheme -- and the
implications for school etiquette -- vary from system to system and
perhaps from school to school.

An often heard story holds that the colours are explained as
follows: a trainee's belts, which, traditionally, were never
washed, became progressively dirtier with time (starting out white,
becoming yellow with sweat, green with grass stains, and so on),
finally changing to black over the years. This explanation, alas,
is almost certainly fanciful.

The best source of information on the meanings of belt colors
and the proper behavior with respect to rank is, as always, one's
teacher.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the Tactful answer to the "Belt Colours Groaner".... here's
the not-so-tactful (and therefore, much more fun) answer, with
thanks to the ever-thorough and factual Steve Gombosi:
-------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ***@rainbow.rmii.com (Stephen O Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Belt colors -- why black?
Date: 20 Feb 1996 14:48:45 -0700

What does it take to put a stake through the heart of this one?

A bigger hammer, obviously...

Gombo? It's time for your biweekly post on this one. I do hope you just
have one version of it in a file somewhere, that you can just cut and
paste routinely for a response. If you don't, post just one more time and
I'll save it for you and do you the favour in the future. How's that?

So, you want me to chime in on the Thread That Will Not "Dye", eh?

Your wish is my command, O Redheaded One...but I'm afraid most of my
saved posts evaporated when my former employer (Cray Computer) went down
the tubes. Bill Rankin was kind enough to send the following from a couple
of years ago - I'm flattered to know he thinks my drivel is worth
saving. The original was in response to the following from Danial

Danial E. Travers writes >

In tradtional days before Jigoro invented Judo, the martial artist of
okinawa only used white belts. When the belt turned black, you were a
black belt.

Ahem. I didn't know you were on a first-name basis with Kano. Anyway,
"in the traditional days before Kano invented Judo", there *was* no
kyu/dan ranking system. Kano invented it when he awarded "shodan" to
two of his senior students (Saito and Tomita) in 1883. Even then, there
was no external differentiation between yudansha (dan ranks) and mudansha
(those who hadn't yet attained dan ranking). Kano apparently began the
custom
of having his yudansha wear black obis in 1886. These obis weren't the
belts karateka and judoka wear today - Kano hadn't invented the judogi
yet, and his students were still practicing in kimono. They were the wide
obi still worn with formal kimono. In 1907, Kano introduced the modern
gi and its modern obi, but he still only used white and black.
Karateka in Okinawa didn't use any sort of special uniform at all in the
old days. The kyu/dan ranking system, and the modern karategi (modified
judogi) were first adopted by Funakoshi in an effort to encourage
karate's acceptance by the Japanese. He awarded the first "shodan" ranks
given in karate to Tokuda, Otsuka, Akiba, Shimizu, Hirose, Gima, and
Kasuya on April 10, 1924. The adoption of the kyu/dan system and the
adoption of a standard uniform based on the judogi were 2 of the 4
conditions which the Dai-Nippon Butokukai required before recognizing
karate as a "real" martial art. If you look at photographs of Okinawan
karateka training in the early part of this century, you'll see that they
were training in their everyday clothes, or (!) in their underwear.

The Korean dobok is, of course, a (slightly) modified karategi. I'll be
happy to let Dakin expound on the events that led to its adoption in
Korea, since he's the author of the definitive scholarly history of
TKD and related arts (when is it gonna be *published*, Dakin???). As far
as Mike's Shuai Chiao statement is concerned, I have read other authors
who claim that the Chinese adopted the convention during the Japanese
occupation. I have a lot of respect for Mike's opinions, but I've never
seen any real evidence one way or the other. There certainly isn't any
evidence that Kano got either the belt convention or the uniform itself
from the Mainland - especially since the uniform can be traced to
traditional Japanese undergarments.

Steve

-------------------------------------------
.... and... to further clarify:

-------------------------------------------

From: ***@rmi.net (Stephen O Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Belt colors -- why black?
Date: 22 May 1996 16:12:43 GMT

One reason I heard for belts being black was that you started off as a
white belt. As you trained the belt gathered dirt and eventually after
many years became black. This was then modified in more recent times

<snip>

... The kyu/dan ranking system, and the white/black belt
distinction that goes with it, is a recent (post-1880) invention.

But your accounting does not deny that the motivation for the chosen
colors was consistant with Neil's version does it?

Well, let's examine this fable in a little more detail.

First: the rank system predates the practice uniform itself (although only
by a few years). The obi distinction is a bit later than the rank
system and a bit earlier than the modern uniform and its (modified)
obi. Kano originally had his students practice in formal kimono,
as some traditional jujutsu systems *still* do, complete with
a wide, traditional obi (really closer to a sash than the modern
"belt"). Let's just say that Kano's students were as likely to
show up with a dirty kimono and obi as you are to show up for a
job interview in a mud-caked suit.

Second: the notion that there would be a certain cachet associated with
filth in a culture as obsessed with cleanliness and ritual purity
as Japan is pretty absurd to begin with.

Third: very high ranks in Japanese and Okinawan arts are often indicated
by red and/or red&white belts. It's hard to see how this is
consistent with the idea that colors result from progressive
staining or overdyeing. To clarify: such systems tend to reserve
red obis for 9th or 10th dan. If the staining theory is correct,
why is this the case? Note that this accounts for the unease
many practitioners of such systems feel around 14 year-old TKD
red belts ;-).

Steve

========================================================================
Below answers the following Groaner:

9) A three-day course does/doesn't make you invincible.
========================================================================

Can you really learn to defend myself after only a three-day course?

Many people are so uncomfortable with the notion of being attacked that
they "freeze". Many people have been so conditioned against responding to
an attack that they simply don't feel *capable* of resisting. There are
short "self-defense" courses which seek to break these inhibitions by
confronting students with an "attacker" in a safe, supportive environment
where physical resistance is not only permitted, but strongly encouraged.
Many people have reported that such courses have been useful to them. If
you feel you're in the same boat, you may wish to investigate these
courses. Note that *none* of these courses can provide you with the sort
of conditioned, automatic response that constant repetitive training
provides, nor will they do much to increase the power or skill with which
you execute those techniques. In other words, they're not a *substitute*
for long-term training in a martial art. What they *can* do is help break
down the psychological barriers which may impede you from defending
yourself to the limit of your current knowledge and abilities.

========================================================================
Below answers the following Groaner:

19) What's the best martial art for self-defense?

========================================================================

The answer is "it depends".

Before you can answer this question (and, make no mistake about it, you
*are* the one who is going to have to answer it), you need to ask
*yourself* some other questions:

1) What do you *mean* by the term "self-defense"? What sort of situations
do you envisage that require some sort of "self-defense"? Single or
multiple opponents? Armed or unarmed? Size relative to you? Do you
expect to be grabbed, thrown, kicked, or punched? Can you speculate
on the motivations for an attack? Do you expect merely to be robbed,
or do you consider rape, maiming, or murder a possibility? These
are very unpleasant questions to think about, but they're necessary
to figure out what your *personal* definition of "self-defense" is.
Essentially, what you have to figure out is:

a) What do you consider an "attack" that requires some sort of response?
b) What sort of response do you, deep in your heart of hearts, consider
appropriate?

Note that the law where you reside may have a very different
definition from the one you have in mind.

2) Who are you? What sort of personality type are you? Are you timid
or assertive? What are your physical attributes? Note that an art
which works well for a 220lb (100kg, for those of you in *rational*
countries) 18 year-old female body-builder may prove useless for
a 70 year-old man half her size, or for a small child.

3) How much time and effort are you *really* willing to put into this?
Note that most people *drastically* overestimate this - you're probably
no exception to the rule. Almost any martial art can be used for
"self-defense" *IF* you're willing to invest the effort to become
truly proficient at it. This includes a lot of arts which don't look
too practical at first glance. A lot of martial arts practice is
repetitive, boring, painful, sweaty, exhausting WORK. How much of
that are you really prepared to endure solely for something as nebulous
as "self-defense"?

Now that we've scared you sufficiently, let's discuss some specifics.
Almost all martial arts have some "self-defense" application, but that
application may be of marginal utility to you.

For example, the art of Shindo Muso Ryu Jodo is probably hard to beat if
you have to fight a traditional Japanese swordsman while armed with only
a stick. But few people find themselves in that situation these days.
Nevertheless, such an art develops excellent timing and an instinctive
sense of distance - both of which are of great utility in defending
oneself.

More mundane, and, if you will, "practical" specialties include throwing,
punching, kicking, groundfighting, and so forth. There is endless
argument about which of these is more "street applicable", with
not much general consensus. Some are probably better for one class
of attacks, some for another.

To sum up, what you need to do is peruse the various style descriptions
in the "Martial Arts FAQ", and read the "Newbie Guide" which was written
explicitly to help you begin to look for a school that suits you, even
if you know relatively little about martial arts. Both are available at:
http://www.users.fast.net/~paiyili/faq.htm#top .

Look these FAQs over in light of the answers you've given to the questions
above. Then, see what's available in your area. If you still can't
decide, feel free to ask on rec.martial-arts.moderated (and rec.martial-
arts).

If you phrase your question carefully, you can avoid being flamed
and probably get a lot of helpful advice. In other words, *don't*
ask "What's the best martial art?", "What's the best martial art for a
street fight?", "What's the best martial art to learn self-defense?".
Instead, ask something more like, "I'm a 28-year-old female, about 5'2",
strong, but not aerobically fit. I have a two-year-old child I take with
me everywhere I go. When I go shopping, I'm always afraid that some guy
is going to try to rob or rape me in one of the parking ramps. Of course
I can't run away and leave my two-year-old, and I don't really want to
hurt anybody, just get away safely. I can devote four nights a week to
practicing *something*. Does anybody have any suggestions?

========================================================================
Below answers the following Groaner:

20) 90% of all fights end up on the ground.

========================================================================

Many people feel that ground-fighting is an important aspect to consider
in a potential attack, citing an often quoted (but never attributed)
statistic that "90% of all fights end on the ground".

This may or may not be true. It's kind of hard to tell, since the sources
for that statistic are unknown. Note that even if it is true, it may
simply mean that 90% of all fighters are incapable of punching or kicking
effectively enough to do any real damage, or that 90% of the people who get
into fights are too drunk to stay on their feet.

Having said that, if you ever *are* taken to ground, being able to fight
there is a useful skill. Note that this doesn't necessarily imply
grappling.

Note also that being on the ground can place one at a disadvantage when
dealing with multiple assailants (especially armed ones), and can make
escape or evasion rather difficult. Not to mention the condition of the
ground itself at the time (broken glass? gravel? mud? snow?).

There are frequent discussions about whether ground-fighting is, or is
not, an essential aspect of most attacks, and whether one needs to
be versed in ground-fighting tactics to be considered sufficiently
versed in self-defense techniques, in order to be prepared for an attack.
There is not, however, a lot of consensus on the answer.

========================================================================
Below answers the following Groaner:

21) Is a gun the best martial arts defense?

========================================================================

Should you get a gun?

Especially in the United States, there's a lot of concern about the
use of firearms in self-defense as well as their use by assailants.

In the martial arts newsgroups, there is considerable disagreement
about the entire topic of gun ownership and usage. Never-ending debates
are easily resurrected about whether a gun:

...is safe; will be available when needed; can be made readily
available if needed; might be taken from you and used against you;
can be brought into play fast enough against someone [unarmed/armed
with a knife/armed with a gun]; the legalities of if and when a gun
can be used; etc....

Three key questions if you are considering the purchase of a gun for
protection:

o Are you willing to put the time and effort into learning how to
use it, and maintaining those skills?

o Are you able to deal with the psychological consequences of
injuring, permanently maiming or disabling, or killing someone
as a result of you pulling the trigger?

o Are you able to deal with the possible legal consequences of
injuring, permanently maiming or disabling, or killing someone
as a result of you pulling the trigger?


If you want advice on the purchase or use of such weapons, it's probably
best to seek it in the newsgroups devoted to firearms: rec.guns, and
for the verbosely masochistic, talk.politics.guns. The NRA certifies
instructors in a well-proven basic pistol syllabus, and can probably
help you find a local gun club that offers an NRA-type course. Most gun
stores and ranges will also be able to direct you toward one, perhaps
more efficiently (note that this is neither an endorsement nor a
rejection of the NRA's political views). If you feel you must have a
gun for self-defense, at least have the good sense to learn how to own
it responsibly and use it safely.

========================================================================
Below answers the following Groaner:

22) What are the chances of an unarmed martial artist versus a gun-wielder?

========================================================================

As far as defending oneself from firearms is concerned, the best
advice is to avoid getting yourself into situations where this might
be necessary. From close range, it's certainly possible for an unarmed
person to effectively deal with a gun - but it's *very* difficult and
*very* dangerous. The odds of failure are pretty high, and the cost of
failure is death. Remember that the next time you see someone kick a gun
out of someone's hand on TV. If the assailant is out of reach, unarmed
techniques are practically useless.

========================================================================


Acknowledgements
----------------

Thanks to the following people for contributing their wisdom, prose,
suggestions, and encouragement to this guide. (The appearance of
their names here does not signify agreement with everything written
here, of course.)

Stephen Chan Steve Gombosi David Poore
Terry Chan Peter Hahn Lauren Radner
Joe Chew Michael Lawrie Bill Rankin
Doug Cohen Mary Malmros Michael Robinson
Bud Glunt Jeff Pipkins Andy Vida-Szucs

(C) Copyright 1997, Lauren B. Radner. All rights reserved.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------