Most aggressive martial art

[justabeginner]

Hello all. After trying without success to determine which is the
"best" martial art, I decided that the best one was just the one that
suited one's combat philosophy and temperament.

I am thus looking to join a martial art which focuses on offense. I'm
not really interested in martial arts which focus on holds, locks and
throws...I prefer one that goes on the offense instead. It suits my
philosophy that the best defense is a good offense. I've tried a few
already and here is my summary of them (feel free to comment):

1) Jujitsu - said by some to be an aggressive one as the optimal zone
for this martial art is up close and personal. But its focus on locks,
holds, throws and pressure points makes it unattractive to me.

2) Judo - too much emphasis on throws, like Jujitsu.

3) Aikido - haven't tried this, but I was told by speaking to the
master that it is a defensive martial art which uses your opponent's
energy/momentum against them.

4) Taekwondo - I liked this because of its emphasis on kicks (an
offensive strike), but was also looking for one that does lots of hand
strikes as well. The class I went to had free sparring with armour,
which I consider a plus.

5) Shotokan Karate - I don't really believe in this one's philosophy
of one-strike-kill. What happens if you miss? And it was demonstrated
to me by a Wushu master that their punches are more powerful than
Karate style punches.

6) Wushu - interesting philosophy of keeping the body "loose" in a
fight. Unlike Karate's philosophy of ki mei, a loose body is more
agile and can strike faster. The class didn't have free sparring so I
dropped this one.

7) Kung Fu (Shaolin or Wing Chun). I found Shaolin Kung Fu to be more
aggressive, but there was no free sparring in either class at my
university.


I don't mind going to a good class and paying a modest subscription
(I'm a student in London) but I really want something that has free
sparring and focuses on attacks. After a few bouts of free sparring
with black belts at the Taekwondo class...it is amazing to see how
difficult it is to actually land a good strike all of a sudden (you
take that for granted if you just do pad work, where you are
guaranteed to hit!)

What do you think of Muay Thai (Thai kickboxing) or the Israeli Krav
Maga? IMO boxing focuses too much on the hands only and I wanted to be
offensive with both hands/legs.

[DC]

Boxing or kick boxing is what you are after.

Post by justabeginner
Hello all. After trying without success to determine which is the
"best" martial art, I decided that the best one was just the one that
suited one's combat philosophy and temperament.

--
_______________________________________________

DC

"You can not reason a man out of a position he did not reach through reason"

"Don't use a big word where a diminutive one will suffice."

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is
never sure." Segal's Law

[Andrew Maddox]

Also sprach justabeginner:
: I am thus looking to join a martial art which focuses on offense. I'm
: not really interested in martial arts which focus on holds, locks and
: throws...I prefer one that goes on the offense instead. It suits my
: philosophy that the best defense is a good offense.

: I don't mind going to a good class and paying a modest subscription
: (I'm a student in London) but I really want something that has free
: sparring and focuses on attacks.

Student? London? Wants to go on the offense? What about good old-
fashioned football hooliganism? Just join up with a rowdy bunch of pub-
crawling yobbos and you'll get plenty of fighting practice. Free, too
(well, except for the beer).

Staying out of jail afterwards is an entirely different type of training...

[Bush]

Interesting. I'm intrigued buy the "wushu master" bit...

From your opening comments, I'd've suggested you pursue Wing Chun a little

further, but if it's sparring you like, stick with the TKD.

Eventually, your personality will change (mature?) and at that point,
perhaps one of the other arts will appeal to you. For now, go with TKD.

Hello all. After trying without success to determine which is the
"best" martial art, I decided that the best one was just the one that
suited one's combat philosophy and temperament.
I am thus looking to join a martial art which focuses on offense. I'm
not really interested in martial arts which focus on holds, locks and
throws...I prefer one that goes on the offense instead. It suits my
philosophy that the best defense is a good offense. I've tried a few
1) Jujitsu - said by some to be an aggressive one as the optimal zone
for this martial art is up close and personal. But its focus on locks,
holds, throws and pressure points makes it unattractive to me.
2) Judo - too much emphasis on throws, like Jujitsu.
3) Aikido - haven't tried this, but I was told by speaking to the
master that it is a defensive martial art which uses your opponent's
energy/momentum against them.
4) Taekwondo - I liked this because of its emphasis on kicks (an
offensive strike), but was also looking for one that does lots of hand
strikes as well. The class I went to had free sparring with armour,
which I consider a plus.
5) Shotokan Karate - I don't really believe in this one's philosophy
of one-strike-kill. What happens if you miss? And it was demonstrated
to me by a Wushu master that their punches are more powerful than
Karate style punches.
6) Wushu - interesting philosophy of keeping the body "loose" in a
fight. Unlike Karate's philosophy of ki mei, a loose body is more
agile and can strike faster. The class didn't have free sparring so I
dropped this one.
7) Kung Fu (Shaolin or Wing Chun). I found Shaolin Kung Fu to be more
aggressive, but there was no free sparring in either class at my
university.
I don't mind going to a good class and paying a modest subscription
(I'm a student in London) but I really want something that has free
sparring and focuses on attacks. After a few bouts of free sparring
with black belts at the Taekwondo class...it is amazing to see how
difficult it is to actually land a good strike all of a sudden (you
take that for granted if you just do pad work, where you are
guaranteed to hit!)
What do you think of Muay Thai (Thai kickboxing) or the Israeli Krav
Maga? IMO boxing focuses too much on the hands only and I wanted to be
offensive with both hands/legs.

-- Ted Bush

"Pain is my form of self-expression"

[Chas]

Post by justabeginner
I don't mind going to a good class and paying a modest subscription
(I'm a student in London) but I really want something that has free
sparring and focuses on attacks.

Do you have access to Pentjak Silat or any of the
SEAsian/Malay/Archipelago/Island arts?
Very aggressive; lots of contact; complete system (percussion, grasping,
grappling, finesse skills, weapons). The 'ranks' are taken from 'pirate
crew' rank; Panglima, Juramendi, and Pangau (War Chief, Ship Captain,
Warrior).
The technique is based on close quarters fighting against seasoned warriors
of unknown skills at high odds as the attacker.

Chas

[Neil Gatenby]

Post by justabeginner
5) Shotokan Karate - I don't really believe in this one's philosophy
of one-strike-kill. What happens if you miss? And it was demonstrated
to me by a Wushu master that their punches are more powerful than
Karate style punches.

Interesting. Tell us more about this demo, please.

You're in London - I suggest you look around. You'll find one club in a
soft/defensive art might be closer to what you want than another club in a
hard/offensive art. Having said that ... Muay Thai

HTH

Neil

[justabeginner]

Post by Neil Gatenby

Post by justabeginner
5) Shotokan Karate - I don't really believe in this one's philosophy
of one-strike-kill. What happens if you miss? And it was demonstrated
to me by a Wushu master that their punches are more powerful than
Karate style punches.

Interesting. Tell us more about this demo, please.

Basically I got to hold a pad while he demonstrated a karate-style
punch (the basic one where you move your leg forward with the punch)
and tense up your whole body as you do it (ki mei). Then he did a
wushu punch with its trademark loose posture and I felt it a lot more.

Maybe it's because he's a wushu master? To be fair I never got to try
being hit by the Karate master.

[Chas]

Post by justabeginner
Basically I got to hold a pad while he demonstrated a karate-style
punch (the basic one where you move your leg forward with the punch)
and tense up your whole body as you do it (ki mei). Then he did a
wushu punch with its trademark loose posture and I felt it a lot more.

Hardest I've ever been hit has been by a taiji player, hsing-i not far
behind. Quickest/hardest was from a pakua guy.

Chas

[gds]

Post by justabeginner
Basically I got to hold a pad while he demonstrated a karate-style
punch (the basic one where you move your leg forward with the punch)
and tense up your whole body as you do it (ki mei). Then he did a
wushu punch with its trademark loose posture and I felt it a lot more.
Maybe it's because he's a wushu master? To be fair I never got to try
being hit by the Karate master.

Of course that type of punch is akin to the boxer's jab and is a poor
example of the power of a trained karateka.
I am always suspect of "masters" trying to elevate their style over
others. True masters have no need to do so and don't worry about it.

I'll also make the observation that if you really get involved in
sparring at a high level you will come to adapt your style to your own
physical make up. Most good fighters that I know do not rigidly stick
to formal techniques of a given style but tend to adopt "what works."

I wouldn't get so concerned about the styles and would concentrate on
finding a school in which you are comfortable and enjoy the training.
If you enjoy it you will stick with it. If not you will quit.

[Zebee Johnstone]

In rec.martial-arts.moderated on Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:50:04 UTC

Post by gds
I am always suspect of "masters" trying to elevate their style over
others. True masters have no need to do so and don't worry about it.

And true masters know that each has its strengths and weaknesses. As do
they.

My fencing master, and the one eastern martial arts teacher I consider a
"master", both encouraged their students to learn from others as well,
because they could not teach everything. And that they should investigate
other styles and teachers to round out the education.

It is quite possible that as neither of them was teaching for money but
because they wanted to create worthwhile students they felt OK to
do this :)

Zebee

[Demon Buddha]

Post by Zebee Johnstone
In rec.martial-arts.moderated on Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:50:04 UTC

Post by gds
I am always suspect of "masters" trying to elevate their style over
others. True masters have no need to do so and don't worry about it.

And true masters know that each has its strengths and weaknesses. As do
they.

Except in the case of Meikdo. No art can compete with Meikdo for
aggressiveness, deadliness, effectiveness. Even Greenoch is a mere fart
in the implacable hurricane that is Meikdo.

All hail Meikdo!

All hail CEO $ensei

Make checks out to "Meikdo International Inc."

-Andy V.

[Earl Camembert]

Post by justabeginner
I am thus looking to join a martial art which focuses on offense. I'm
not really interested in martial arts which focus on holds, locks and
throws...I prefer one that goes on the offense instead. It suits my
philosophy that the best defense is a good offense. I've tried a few

With out a doubt the most aggressive and deadly martial (military) art
is the infantry. You are fortunate to be in a country that is part of
the collation of foresees that is in Iraq. You should join the Queens
SSA or what ever they are called. Make sure you are a rifleman in the
infantry. You will want to be carrying only a rifle and you will want
to be on foot. With any luck you will get to fight up close and
personal, hand to hand, bayonet plunged deep into flesh. That is by
far the most aggressive and the only martial art that can be truly
called "Combat". Get to the recruiter before the US pacifies Iraq
before you get a chance to practice your art.

[Paul]

Go and find a Vale tudo/mixed martial arts class, it will cover everything.

[GhostDog]

Muay Thai is a good offensive sport, and apparently ( i have not
trained or seen, only read this... ) Krav Maga has very few or no
withdrawing techniques at all. I agree that Wushu develops a stronger
punch than the standard karate taught in britain and america, however
Okinawan karate is very powerful indeed. However, as it is thus, a
person will struggle to find an authentic instructor willing to teach
it locally.

Maybe you 'justabeginner' do only wish to learn offensive moves,
but what happens when your attack either fails for some reason, or you
face a stronger opponent? as the infamous bruce lee said ( although I
do not stalk his memory and worship him like many of his fans do, his
words had a lot of truth in them...) 'One style of fighting will
prepare you for one style of fight, to be a good learner, try and
develop skills from many styles' Of course, his JKD style does cover
many styles...

Cheers,
Ghost Dog

[no_more_bruce]

Taekwondo Development in China may enlighten you on the question of the
most aggressive martial arts.

Takewondo has become extremely popular in China, from the normal
security training, to the highest level of the Wushu competition within
China--shantak(散打), Taekwondo seems to be a inseparate part of the
whole being of combating skills. What is more strange is, as Taekwondo
become more and more sporty, its image as an effective combating
martial arts become stronger.

Why can this happen in China? Because people have so much leisure time
that they use all their everyday free time to practice Taekwondo,
several hours every day on average--from white belt to black, many
people can finish this promotion process in appromixately one year...
and also the training is very bloody: they have fierce free fight
without any protection wearing, even one of those who fight vomot his
blood from their mouth, others keeps their around waist and keep their
mouths shut, as if it is very noraml...so with this kind of training,
the sporty Taekwondo can be a very fierce combating skill in China.

The conclusion is, the most aggressive martial arts does nto depend on
what kind of martial arts it is, but now the people practice it.

[b***@yahoo.com]

When you say TKD is in the highest levels of Wushu competition, do you
mean Wushu in the western sense of modern Chinese martial arts, or the
Chinese sense of literally "martial arts"? And when you say shantak, do
you mean sanshou (free sparring)? Because from what I understand,
sanshou is evolving to become more and more like MMAs in terms of
competition rules, and the lack of close range can be a huge liability

[Don]

Post by justabeginner
I am thus looking to join a martial art which focuses on offense. I'm
not really interested in martial arts which focus on holds, locks and
throws...I prefer one that goes on the offense instead. It suits my
philosophy that the best defense is a good offense. I've tried a few

In time you may come to see that holds, locks, and especially throws are
defensive or offensive, depending upon the method of their application. Do
most joint locks with a short savage motion and it turns into a joint tear
("break"). Take someone's feet out from under them and gently turn their
bodies so that their heads land first, and you may not get an argument from
them for at least a few minutes.

Post by justabeginner
1) Jujitsu - said by some to be an aggressive one as the optimal zone
for this martial art is up close and personal. But its focus on locks,
holds, throws and pressure points makes it _unattractive_to_me_.

Fair enough.

Post by justabeginner
2) Judo - too much emphasis on throws, like Jujitsu.
3) Aikido - haven't tried this, but I was told by speaking to the
master that it is a defensive martial art which uses your opponent's
energy/momentum against them.

More true than not..

Post by justabeginner
4) Taekwondo - I liked this because of its emphasis on kicks (an
offensive strike), but was also looking for one that does lots of hand
strikes as well. The class I went to had free sparring with armour,
which I consider a plus.

TKD does tend to focus on offensive movements and usually has a good amount
of sparring, which it sounds like you're after.

Post by justabeginner
5) Shotokan Karate - I don't really believe in this one's philosophy
of one-strike-kill. What happens if you miss?

What happens when you miss the tank with your first round? You shoot again.

Post by justabeginner
And it was demonstrated
to me by a Wushu master that their punches are more powerful than
Karate style punches.

A guy whose is trying to say his style's punch is better than another styles
punch has motivation to pull back on the other type of punch and throw the
best of his style's punch. Just to consider. Not that I don't believe a
Wushu punch is, if not more powerful, then at least as powerful.

Post by justabeginner
6) Wushu - interesting philosophy of keeping the body "loose" in a
fight. Unlike Karate's philosophy of ki mei, a loose body is more
agile and can strike faster. The class didn't have free sparring so I
dropped this one.
7) Kung Fu (Shaolin or Wing Chun). I found Shaolin Kung Fu to be more
aggressive, but there was no free sparring in either class at my
university.

There's LOTS of type of Kung Fu that goes by the name of Shaolin. If you
find another class that's not at your school, it may be worthwhile to check
it out also...might be much closer to what you want.

Post by justabeginner
I don't mind going to a good class and paying a modest subscription
(I'm a student in London) but I really want something that has free
sparring and focuses on attacks. After a few bouts of free sparring
with black belts at the Taekwondo class...it is amazing to see how
difficult it is to actually land a good strike all of a sudden (you
take that for granted if you just do pad work, where you are
guaranteed to hit!)
What do you think of Muay Thai (Thai kickboxing) or the Israeli Krav
Maga? IMO boxing focuses too much on the hands only and I wanted to be
offensive with both hands/legs.

Its within Muay Thai's "heritage" to be very offensive. This would seem
like a good match for you. Have heard of some very good and some very bad
Krav Maga...check out the class and see for yourself.

Everything said above are generalities, and there are dozens of exceptions
we could point out. You can find very aggressive Tai Chi, and very laid
back Jeet Kune Do if you look long enough. Best advice is to visit all the
schools, and see which suit you the best. Good luck.

[Bush]

Post by justabeginner
I am thus looking to join a martial art which focuses on offense. I'm
not really interested in martial arts which focus on holds, locks and
throws...I prefer one that goes on the offense instead. It suits my
philosophy that the best defense is a good offense. I've tried a few

[much stuff cut]

Post by justabeginner
7) Kung Fu (Shaolin or Wing Chun). I found Shaolin Kung Fu to be more
aggressive, but there was no free sparring in either class at my
university.

Given your predilictions, I'd urge you to find a good wing chun school --
the style seems geared towards quickly giving you a solid offensive
grounding (as opposed to chen style taichi, for example, which may offer
devestating attacks/throws/etc, but far further down the line). I do not
know if wing chun schools do much contact sparring, but what I've seen of
the style would certainly warrant a closer look by one with your desired
emphasis.

-- Ted Bush

"Pain is my form of self-expression"